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Full Debian ARM for Under $200

Posted by timothy on Wed Jul 20, 2005 06:18 PM
from the neato-keen dept.
Hardware Hacking Debian Software Wireless Networking Hardware Linux
An anonymous reader writes "With minor elbow grease, you can now set yourself up with a complete Debian ARM Linux box for under $200. This is thanks to Peter Korsgaard, who figured out a cool byteswapped kernel hack for the little $99 Linksys NSLU2. Add a $99 USB harddrive, and the tiny, cute, quiet 'Slug' can run any of about 16,000 Debian ARM packages, 24x7, for pennies per month worth of electricity, since ARM is still orders of magnitude more power-efficient than anything x86. Serve files, music, web pages, printers, backups, kernel images, webcams/motion detection, firewalls/routers, wireless access point... or whatever. Oh, did I mention you can overclock the Slug?"
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  • Stereo component (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:21PM (#13118777) Homepage Journal
    Where's the $100 ARM device for Debian that includes ethernet and stereo audio out (headphones/speakers)? Even used PocketPCs cost $100, plus $50-100 for PCMCIA ethernet/sleeve.
    • usb audio for $30-$50?
      • Are you suggesting a USB soundcard, on an i386 desktop? The desktop has a cost, of course. And it sucks power, and can't fail over to battery. But worst of all is the fan noise, and it's kinda big & ugly next to the rest of the stereo.

        I want a dinky little device that sucks little juice, set to play a single stream from a Shoutcast server across my ethernet. The server I can put in the closet, and set with playlists, or a cheap old wireless PalmPilot I've got, hitting the server's playlists webpage wit
    • Is wireless ethernet and Linux (but not debian) good enough for you? If so...you can get the ARM based zipit for about $99. It has a normal stereo headphone jack, and what looks like an audio remote jack on it. You have to hack it a bit to actually get it to play mp3's and such, but the manufacture claims it will support streaming audio in the next firmware release.

      http://www.elinux.org/wiki/ZipIt [elinux.org]

  • So... the question on everyone's mind is... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:22PM (#13118784)
    Does it run Li...Oh, right... ^_^
  • ARM but does it have a HURD?

    (sorry)

  • Already hacked (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:24PM (#13118809)

    The Linksys NSLU2 has already been hacked [tomsnetworking.com] so you can run your own applications on it. :-)

  • Fans of this should check out openwrt.org (Score:5, Informative)

    by kaldek (901414) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:26PM (#13118828)
    OpenWRT is a similar thing for the Linksys WRT54G and GS wireless routers. Same goes for the Asus WL500 series. Linux forever! heh
    • You can't, however, attach a HDD to the WRT54G(S). I've just ordered myself an Asus WL-500g Deluxe with two USB 2.0 ports. Should be nice for a little web server with OpenWRT, though the performance should be poor. 1.3Mbytes/s I've heard. I guess this Linksys device has better USB performance, it being meant for file sharing, though it's not a guarantee. The WL-HDD (connects a regular IDE HDD) can only transfer 2Mbytes/s.
      • I have one of the older Asus WL500G wireless routers. At various times I've had photo printers and USB disks plugged in to it- it's a fantasic piece of kit. You can make it boot off USB and have SSH as well.

        Not blazingly fast, but enough for most of us.

        My Compaq laptop can only do about 1.5MB/sec using SSH anyway. FTP is obviously faster.

  • Decent file server... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MindNumbingOblivion (668443) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:29PM (#13118848) Homepage
    ...that doesn't cost an ARM and a leg.

    Thank you, thank you.

    • If you're gonna go there... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2005, @07:22PM (#13119295)
      Hacking it will require strongarm tactics.

      Buying largue quantities means you're exercising your right to bear ARMs.

      People running to get them are conducting an ARMs race.

      A beowulf cluster of these will be called an ARMy

      Stallman's creating an OS specifically for this called GNU/HARM

      They're marketing it and calling it a Linux-Installed Micro Box System (LIMBS) with a monitor called a Linux-Embedded Graphics Station (LEGS)
      • Just don't cross your ARMs you'd hate to have them conflicted.

        A black-hat hacker with one of these, can be considered ARMed and Dangerous.

        Someone lend me a hand here, because boy is my ARM tired...

        you can always beat a dead joke, with your ARM.

        $define(funny,%pARM)

        If your box ever gets lost or stolen don't forget to shout "I've lost my ARM"

        If you don't keep debian patched, you're APT to say someone Root-ed around in your ARM.
  • We have all heard software monoculture is bad from a security standpoint... Would running one of these things be more secure than running debian on x86 since the hardware is different?

  • Getting there, but not yet perfect (Score:3, Informative)

    by glowworm (880177) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:31PM (#13118860) Journal
    This is a cool project and Kudos to Linksys for using Linux as a basis for their NAS and Routers.

    But TFA says "built-in 10/100 (not yet supported in litte-endian mode)". If I read this correctly the device works, but the network port doesn't. Hopefully someone can correct me and confirm that the ethernet port does work.

    This would be a perfect low-cost always-on media centre server for Slim Devices [slimdevices.com] Squeezebox Server [slimdevices.com]
    • The key there is the "not yet supported in little-endian mode" (emphasis mine). Endianness [wikipedia.org] refers to which end of the data the processor starts chewing on first. Big endian means it reads the most significant bit first, little means it starts from the least sig bit.

      ARM processes things in what is known as a byte-sexual method, ie, either big or little endian. What tfa is saying is that eth0 port should work just fine under Debian ARM in big-endian mode (otherwise having this thing set up as a network s

  • But an XBOX cheap when people throw theirs away for XBOX 360 and chip it :-) You can run Linux legally on it and put in any HD you want much cheaper (internal) than a USB drive.
    • > But an XBOX cheap when people throw theirs away for XBOX 360 and chip it :-) You can run Linux legally on it and put in any HD you want much cheaper (internal) than a USB drive.

      Ah, but then you would still be running x86 -- and that's just not 1337 enough for /.!

  • Think again, homies: (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zerocool^ (112121) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:38PM (#13118926) Homepage Journal

    From TFA:

    The device has 32MB of SDRAM, 8MB of NOR Flash, built-in 10/100 (not yet supported in litte-endian mode), and dual USB 2.0 ports.

    How are you planning on accessing those files? Hopes and dreams? Network Attached Storage with no Network Attached is just a hard drive.

    ~Will
    • That's what the USB ethernet adapter is for.

    • Re:Think again, homies: (Score:5, Informative)

      by pyrrhonist (701154) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @07:07PM (#13119165)
      How are you planning on accessing those files? Hopes and dreams? Network Attached Storage with no Network Attached is just a hard drive.

      If you don't need a distro as large as Debian, you can run Unslung [nslu2-linux.org], which does support the built-in Ethernet.

      Unslung uses ipkg for package management and has a simple installation using the native firmware. It is very stable, since it has been available almost since the Linksys product was announced. It is actively being developed and you can talk to the developers via IRC at #nslu2-linux on Freenode.

      There is also a Yahoo group [yahoo.com] for running Linux on the NSLU2.

  • Serve This! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:47PM (#13119005)
    Serve files, music...

    And be served with an RIAA lawsuit!

  • Project page slashdotted, but I have questions... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PsychoKiller (20824) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:51PM (#13119048) Homepage
    Can it use other USB 2.0 peripherals?

    How much power does it consume? Better than a WRT54G?

    Can it be further underclocked?

      • Probably about the same, but of course, a external hard drive is going to suck a lot more power...

        Unslung supports USB memory sticks, so you don't actually have to use a HD with it.

        Also, I have a 40 GB Segate attached to mine that is USB powered.

        It still might use more power than the WRT54, but at least you don't need anymore power than is available with the NSLU2's adapter.

  • Ethernet not supported (Score:3, Informative)

    by alan_dershowitz (586542) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:57PM (#13119104)
    NOTE: First page says that the built-in ethernet isn't working under the Debian install yet. Not thinking this will be useful for most people. I'll be getting one when that's worked out, I need a low-power box to run an HTTP proxy on.

  • If you don't want to mod... (Score:5, Informative)

    by pyrrhonist (701154) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @07:28PM (#13119349)
    To install Debian on the NSLU2, you'll need to do a serial port modification. If you aren't comfortable with modifying your NSLU2, than I suggest running Unslung [nslu2-linux.org].

    Unslung can be installed without using a serial port modification, because it simply uses the built-in Linksys web administration to upgrade the firmware to the Unslung distribution.

    Once Unslung is installed, it only takes a matter of minutes to have your NSLU2 running Samba, OpenSSH, Apache, Slimserver, and even Asterisk!

  • "Debian ARM only supports little-endian" ? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GodWasAnAlien (206300) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @07:36PM (#13119414)
    Sounds like a bug...

    Doesn't Debian run on PPC?

    What exactly are the applications that depend on the backass ints?

  • New uses (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JanneM (7445) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @09:12PM (#13120110) Homepage
    [Note: I wrote about this just a day ago here [lucs.lu.se]; I'm paraphrasing and shortening it below]

    I just bought myself a wireless router, for the price of 5100 yen (about $45). Of course, it's a real, full single-board computer that happens to have excellent connectivity to everything. Add storage ability and interfaces through USB2 and you can start thinking up some really interesting uses for this kind of gear.

    With the kind of price we're starting to see, there's no reason to have only one. How about having two, three or more of them at home, in different rooms to get good wireless coverage anywhere? They could present themselves as being one single friendly system to its users, transparently talking to each other wirelessly and move data to where it's needed.

    The units with hard disks could be hidden away in closets or workrooms where the noise doesn't bother anyone, while the ones out in the livingroom or bedrooms would would be small and quiet and have extra communications abilities like being able to play music or show movies stored anywhere in the home network. They would act as an external redundant storage (more convenient and much safer than backing up on CD:s or DVD:s), as backup, as household web, mail and IP telephone server, climate controller and general communications forwarder (whether you are at home, using your cellphone, or being on some conference trip halfway around the world, you can get to your email, voice mail and IM in the same way).

    You need more storage or some new hardware functionality? Just get another unit. When powered on it'll join the rest of them and suddenly your home has a bit of added capacity it didn't have before.

    When highly capable hardware like this is coming down into the sub-10000yen range, a whole new range of uses is becoming feasible.

  • x86 power consumption (Score:3, Informative)

    by slashdot.org (321932) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @09:40PM (#13120308) Homepage Journal
    since ARM is still orders of magnitude more power-efficient than anything x86

    This is utter bullshit.

    On this page [nslu2-linux.org] it says that at 133MHz, idle, the board consumes 8.6W. There are plenty of embedded x86 boards that run lower power and/or higher clock frequency.

    For example, here's a board [ampro.com] that runs at 133MHz, 5 Watt at 100% CPU load.
    • I noticed that the x86 board you refer to has half the DRAM,no 10/100 Ethernet interface, maybe this help for the power consumption? (it probably doesn't explain the whole difference)

      What would be interesting also is comparing the SpecInt (and also SpecFP for fun) of these two processors..
      Clock speed isn't a good performance indicator: traditionnaly RISCs have been more powerful than x86 at a given clockspeed, but I don't know if this is the case here.

  • Full Debian SH for Under $200 in Japan (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kinneko (901475) on Thursday July 21 2005, @01:40AM (#13121624)
    See this one.
    You can buy it with $160.
    http://supertank.iodata.jp/products/sotohdlwu/ [iodata.jp]

    CPU: SH-4/266MHz
    DRAM: 64MB
    NIC: 100BASE-TX (Realtek)
    USB: 2.0 x2 (NEC)
    SerialConsoleCable: (not include. extention$33)
    HDD: 3.5 ATA HDD x2 (not include)
    OS: Debian GNU/Linux SH (iohack version)
    kernel: 2.4.21
    daemons: mt-daapd, akaDAV, vsftpd, wizd,
    mdnsresopnder, telnetd

    Web reviews (Japanese)
    http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/column/jisakuparts/023/ [mycom.co.jp]
    http://bb.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/special/10056.ht ml [impress.co.jp]
    http://bb.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/special/10074.ht ml [impress.co.jp]

  • Limited memory :-( (Score:4, Informative)

    by Mark Gillespie (866733) on Thursday July 21 2005, @03:20AM (#13122068)
    The crippling factor on the NSLU2 is the limited memory. Fine for what it's intended to do, but they to expand it's capabilities, and you hit the wall. Many people have this problem when trying to use it as a UPnP Mediaserver (using Twonkyvision). The hardware is simply not powerfull enough, or enough memory to cope with large scale media databases and heavy network media streaming.
    • Let's just do a search and replace on your post here...

      Oh, did I mention, VHS sucks ass? I mean, come on, there's no excuse with Beta around.

      Guess who lost that one! Just because it's the best techology, doesn't mean it's going to get used.

    • It's not our fault you prefer the never-changing BSD and the 1-button MAC mouse. With the second highest install base in the world, you're bound to get breached.

    • You do realize that you can install linux on the mac mini, and I'm sure PPC has better support than ARM, or you can just use fink (like bsd ports) to install *nix apps under OSX? Not to mention the mac mini is much more powerfull....
    • Cheaper, more efficient, faster (Disk I/O wise), more stable, more flexible (apt-get) than the Mac Mini.

      Come again? I'll give you cheaper and more energy efficient but let's not get carried away. I bet you lose the energy efficiency once you plug in an external USB hard drive too.

    • Re:I've been waiting for this! (Score:4, Informative)

      by chrysrobyn (106763) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @07:18PM (#13119259)
      Cheaper, more efficient, faster (Disk I/O wise), more stable, more flexible (apt-get) than the Mac Mini.

      Cheaper? Granted, by at least 5x. More efficient? Less power, certainly, can't attest to what efficiency you're shooting for -- if its CPU cycles per cubic inch, not likely. Faster? If I put an identical IDE drive on a firewire bridge, the MacMini will be faster than some USB implementation.

      Not to mention the ability to hack it when I want (The warranty is already void!).

      Who cares about the warranty when you're doing something like this? With a Mac Mini, you're not voiding the warranty by loading an alternative OS anyway.

      My Linux box is a PowerMac 7600 with a 500MHz G3 upgrade card, running PowerPC Debian. PowerPC doesn't have all the support of the x86 world in Linux (and ARM is even worse), but Debian provides a great platform to provide support for us non-x86 platform users.

    • Apples to Oranges... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jevvim (826181) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @07:19PM (#13119270) Journal
      faster (Disk I/O wise)

      Since both the NSLU2 and the Mac Mini support USB2, I don't really understand how one would have faster disk I/O than the other. Now, certainly, there can be questions about file system efficiency, but you could also say that the Mac Mini (for, granted, 5x the price) could have much faster I/O, since you have 256MB of RAM instead of 32MB for things like read-caching.

      more stable

      I'm very interested as to why the NSLU2 would be more stable than a Mac Mini. Personally, I think the short, square design of the Mini is more stable than the tall, tower design of the NSLU2. From a software standpoint, I'd say the two are rather comparable in stability for comparable activities (i.e., no complaining about 3D games crashing on the Mini when the NSLU2 doesn't even have a graphics chip).

      more flexible

      While the Mini's certainly not a flexibility powerhouse, I don't see the NSLU2 beating it out here, either. Software flexibility? Mac OS X has a lot of software available, both commerical and software libre (GPL/BSD). You can also run GNU/Linux on the Mini, including the Debian distribution with apt-get.

      Not to mention the ability to hack it when I want (The warranty is already void!).

      Open your Mini and replace the hard drive. Voila, both can be hacked at will because the warranty is void! ^__^

    • Re:Overclock the slug? (Score:5, Informative)

      by jaylee7877 (665673) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @06:44PM (#13118988) Homepage
      This is not an overclock. For reasons unknown, Linksys chose to clock the unit at 133mhz. The chip is spec'ed by intel to run at 266mhz w/o cooling. So your not overclocking your un-underclocking :-)

      • Re:Overclock the slug? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by tang (179356) on Wednesday July 20 2005, @08:12PM (#13119667)
        Just to note, I just performed the operation and de-neutered my NSLU to full speed. I went the non-soldering route and just used a boxcutter to cut the resistor in half, then scrapped it carefully off the board. From booting down the slug , till the time it was back and operational was 5 minutes. Very easy procedure, even if you don't have a soldering iron or soldering skills.

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