Cringely Shows How to Get Free Cell Calls 222
SafariShane writes "In this week's pulpit, Bob describes how to properly use new software from a company called IPDrum. Basically, you use the free mobile-to-mobile feature of any major carrier to call a dedicated cell phone attached to your computer. That call is then connected to Skype, allowing you to make free cell calls just about anywhere. Just how long till someone does this on a large scale, by overselling the dedicated lines, and starts selling true unlimited cell plans?"
Hmm (Score:4, Funny)
I'm guessing Cringely has made a prediction
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing he has made an investment, too.
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Of course, it's not free long distance, but neither is skype; skypeout might be cheap, but it isn't free.
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Informative)
There are two types of unlimited. Unlimited minutes to any local number, and unlimited minutes to ANY long distance or international number. Skype-to-skype isn't to anybody, only people with skype.
Don't get me wrong, this whole plan is genious, and it allows people to get skype's SkypeOut rates for their cellphones, and if the computer is hooked up to the POTS itself then free local.
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Can you provide more information about these termination providers?
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Perhaps one could take this skype cable this company makes and roll one's own software.
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't care if my landline is tied up most of the time, I have a cellphone finally (just got my first a few months back). Maybe you're in a similar situation. Maybe you'd buy a $12 asterisk card too.
If we set up the hardware correctly, well then, I can make long distance calls to your area, and you to mine, and it won't cost us anything. Better yet, technically, your grandma down the road, who doesn't even have a computer, could make a LD call to Richmond VA, without it showing up on her bill. She dials into your asterisk machine, it puts it through over broadband to mine. My grandma could do the same thing... or for that matter, anyone in Richmond could do the same thing.
Why would I do this, you ask? Because even if I only cheat the bastard phone companies out of a nickel of long distance revenue, I consider it a victory.
Anyone feel like helping?
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure what they call the ones that work they way you describe, but the idea is you call a local number, get another dial tone, then call a long distance number.
On the other hand, imagine a free (opensource?) service that tracked all such numbers in all locations, and also when they were in use (Each "node" could report to the master server when it was in use). The only trick about this is getting the numbers to the people. As in, person A wants to make a call, a
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Interesting, but how novel is it? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder if this method is patented... ?
Re:Interesting, but how novel is it? (Score:2)
WiFi doesn't have the range, and dedicated systems are expensive. With this I could get a cell phone (which I would use to some degree anyway) and possibly use it as a cell modem to connect to my computer at home, and route through that to access my broadband internet from there. If nothing else I'd be able to retreive documents and send home pictures and stuff while out on
Re:Interesting, but how novel is it? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Interesting, but how novel is it? (Score:2)
=Smidge=
Re:Interesting, but how novel is it? (Score:3, Interesting)
IPOfC (IP over free-cellular)
The telecom's worst nightmare. Being your own forwarder into the net from free wireless from anyplace? (Not to mention security concerns)
But, they wo
This was done before... (Score:2, Informative)
I think it was on Slashdot, but I can't find the link.
Re:This was done before... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:This was done before... (Score:5, Informative)
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/03/19492
A new acronym? (Score:5, Funny)
Makes me wonder how much delay there is between talking and the other party listening with the cell to cell to skype to skype to cell to cell.
We have a new acronym c2c2p2p2c2c
Re:A new acronym? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:A new acronym? (Score:3, Funny)
I tried to make a tech support call to SBC internet services over Skype once. Take the Skype delay, and add the .75 second delay for the signal to go to the call center in India, throw in the inevitable "clipping" effect, plus the irregular language and hint of an accent of an
Re:A new acronym? (Score:2)
Re:A new acronym? (Score:2)
c2c2p2p2c2c = 16c^4p^2... (Score:3, Funny)
I could be wrong about that formula.
And then? (Score:5, Informative)
For $40 a month [metropcs.com], you get unlimited local and long distance calls.
Re:And then? (Score:2)
Re:And then? (Score:2)
Re:And then? (Score:5, Informative)
MetroPCS is not designed with globetrotters in mind.
Re:And then? (Score:2, Interesting)
It's much better to:
Plus, you get the benefit that there's 3 or 4 extra single points of failure, and you get to use twice the air bandwith when your calling from the same tower as the dedicated cell-phone.
And I'm sure there's no degradation in quality!
Re:And then? (Score:4, Funny)
$45/mo gets you unlimited calling, including US long distance.
$30/mo gets you unlimited local calling.
Only free to Skype users (Score:3, Informative)
It seems like a lot of trouble for little savings. I guess my perspective would be different if I was a very mobile person who needed to make frequent out-of-country calls (more common in Europe, yes, I know).
Not the point.. (Score:2)
Re:Only free to Skype users (Score:2, Interesting)
I've been using Packet8 for $20 a month for unlimited US and Canda for more than a year now. The ser
Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)
2x cheapest cell plan is still about $60-70. For that much money, you can almost buy unlimited minutes (or at least practically unless you talk non-stop) from the cell provider.
For a family or group of friends, however, this sounds like a great deal.
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
2. For a family or group of friends, there are far better deals out there. You can buy a big plan and share minutes. You can get Verizon or Sprint (or many others) and have free calling between the phones (IN Network, PCS-to-PCS).
3. Overage fees can cost you hundreds each month if you're not careful. A solution li
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
T-Mobile's Family Time plan is $49.99, and includes 2 lines and unlimited mobile-to-mobile.
Bing, $50 unlimited cell usage.
Phone Phreaking! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Phone Phreaking! (Score:2)
Voice compression hell (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Voice compression hell (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Voice compression hell (Score:3, Informative)
GSM Player (Score:2)
Try listening to music being played down a GSM phone. That's just bizarre.
Only because the phone runs the GSM Full Rate codec at too low a bitrate. Crank the bitrate up to 30 kbps, and music starts to sound decent. For example, I took a Smile.dk song, encoded it, decoded it, and got this [jk0.org]. In fact, a popular homebrew application for Game Boy Advance [pineight.com] uses GSM audio at 30 kbps.
Re:Voice compression hell (Score:3, Informative)
GSM EFR (used by T-Mobile USA) is actually quite good, on par with or better than the CDMA voice codec used by Verizon.
Re:Voice compression hell (Score:2)
From my experience with it, it only sounds crapy when it's being transcoded from a bad source. iLBC => iLBC sounds great.
On that same note you could say that g729 or ulaw is crappy, but it's all depending on how your creating the stream.
iLBC is a GREAT protocol, as can be heard on a skype->skype call (which uses iLBC).
Re:Voice compression hell (Score:3, Interesting)
I haven't been impressed. I don't know if it's the codec, or something else about Skype, but the quality is underwhelming.
I live in Asia, and have non-mind-blowing DSL (1024/384, with 300ms ping to the USA). I use VoIP providers via Asterisk on a colo box in the USA to place and receive calls via a Sipura SPA-1001. Most people I talk with in Europe or the USA can't tell that I'm using VoIP or on the other side of the planet.
However, whenever I use Skype (from here or elsewhere) there's this sort of cycl
Re:Voice compression hell (Score:3, Interesting)
Unless it is a datacall. If it is a datacall, then you wouldn't need anything other than iLBC, but I don't think it is a datacall, because you are listening on the other end. When you listen on the other end, your network provider's vocoder must encode voice from you and decode voice to you.
Investing in Phone Numbers (Score:3, Interesting)
Cough.
It seems to me that the obvious place to converge points of content would be email addresses -- which will make phone numbers obsolete as well.
Re:Investing in Phone Numbers (Score:2)
Sure it's free, you just ... (Score:5, Funny)
You've met "free-as-in-speech" and "free-as-in-beer" -- now meet "free-as-in-really-expensive"! Yayyyy capitalism!!
Re:Sure it's free, you just ... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Sure it's free, you just ... (Score:3, Informative)
I'll pass.. (Score:4, Interesting)
How much does your average cell phone provider charge for a month of service? Let's be generous and say $30, plus $10 for the "in network" plan. So, $40 right there.
Next, you add the regularly poor quality of a cell phone call, with its drop outs in sound, etc. to the equally (if not moreso) poor quality of a VoIP call, and you end up with a lot of "huh? what? can you hear me now?" in your conversations.
People who tend to spend so much time on their cell phone that they go over the costs associated with having the second phone line value value their ability to communicate and won't tolerate the kind of frustrations with this "cheap" solution.
Re:I'll pass.. (Score:2)
Out in Asia, this becomes less of a problem with newer wireless technologies, such as 3G which provides much greater bandwidth.
Of course though if that sort of infrastructure is in place, wireless companies are also wise enough to jump on the VoIP bandwagon for int
FREE cell phone calls?" (Score:2)
Re:FREE cell phone calls?" (Score:2)
Free? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Free? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Free? (Score:5, Interesting)
Because when you add everything up, it's cheaper that way.
Remember, you don't only receive calls, you make them too (even if you personally only receive calls, there would be no calls to receive if people in general weren't making them).
Studies have shown again and again in that receiver-pays markets (e.g., USA, Singapore, China), the total amount paid by consumers per unit of mobile phone airtime is lower.
This is because the person who is paying for the call is the same person who has market power in the relationship with the service provider. In the caller-pays system, the person who is paying for the call has no way to express their dissatisfaction with the rate by switching to a different provider, so it is not a competitive factor. The people who pay have to put up with whatever rates are in effect, or not make the call at all.
Caller-pays is a huge swindle, built on a transparent lie, and it's costing European consumers billions.
Re:Free? (Score:3)
Even less free (Score:2)
Re:Free? (Score:2)
I've had completely free digital mobile service on 5 phones with T-mobile going on two years now.
Cost?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Seems like you'd need to be spending a LOT of time calling international to make this worthwhile.
Need a Bluetooth link (Score:4, Interesting)
Give me a bluetooth adapter than plugs into my POTS phone jack and communicates with the phone. This could be a regular phone line, or VOIP like Vonage. Then I can call out via link, or have incoming calls get transferred as well. As far as the cell company is concerned, I'm making a bunch of calls to the wife.
Incoming should be fairly easy, all incoming calls to the home line get sent to a pre-configured number in the home cell phone. Outbound might be trickier since you'd have to tell the home cell phone what number to dial out.
I'm sure it's coming soon, but a Skype-only solution that takes a cable, that's not all that exciting
Re:Need a Bluetooth link (Score:2)
This is how long... (Score:3, Funny)
Just longer than it takes for some shady lawmakers to sneak in a law to prevent that.
No international (Score:2)
Anyone here run a communications company?
The first company who can give me a single, flat monthly bill for local, long-distance and international calls (be it landline, VOIP, or mobile) gets my business. I don't care if it totals a little more than I am paying now. I hate all those silly plans with different payment structures, different hours costing different amounts, long distance (sometimes including across town) costing more than local, strange rates per country for international, etc. etc. etc.
No
Re: (Score:2)
Re:No international (Score:2)
Unlimited calling to 35 countries including the United States:
Australia Netherlands Austria Norway Belgium Singapore Canada Spain Chile Sweden China Switzerland Denmark Taiwan France United Kingdom
Germany Ireland Vatican City
Italy Argentina Luxembourg Brazil Malaysia Czech Republic New Zealand Finland Poland Greece Portugal Israel Japan South Korea
Calls to cellphones to some of the above countries cost money th
Re:No international (Score:2)
Speakeasy OneLink comes close enough for me. $88/month for 1.5/384 ADSL, static IP, servers are fine with TOS. NO local analog line needed, bye-bye SBC! That plus VOIP with unlimited US & Canada including voicemail, callerID, call waiting, forwarding, 3-way, etc. I don't call outside the US, so I'm not even sure what those rates are. It hit my sweet spot. It ma
Re:No international (Score:2)
The problem is that the communications companies themselves have to pay varying rates.
Even the wholesale rate to dial certain mobile networks can exceed $1/minute. That's about $43,000 per month. Do you expect them to offer this at $100/month and hope that no one will abuse it?
Of course, you can add restrictions or additional billing
Re:No international (Score:2)
Already here, man (Score:2)
* Unlimited US, local and long distance calls
* Unlimited to Canada and 17 countries in Western Europe
* 26 calling features like Voicemail, Call Forwarding and 3 way calling
* Keep your phone number, Emergency Calling Service and more...
numbers wrong (Score:2)
This guy cannot possibly be serious!
Re:numbers wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
What's the Windows desktop market share? 95%?
The vast majority of Windows and Mac systems have Flash player installed. I'd wager on 95% or more. And probably more than half of Linux and other OSS workstation boxes have Flash too.
Now if you add in non-PC's, it's probably wrong. Java runs (albeit probably too slowly for voice) on a LOT of phones... and PDA's? Does Flash run on PocketPC yet?
Re:numbers wrong (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.macromedia.com/mobile/supported_device
Read the ToS carefully.. (Score:5, Interesting)
The mobile-to-mobile minutes are free for two reasons. First, they don't have to pay a termination fee for moving the call to someone else's network. Second, it's a sales tool to get your friends to sign up. By doing this, you sabotage the second goal, and they'll try everything possible to make your life miserable.
The Opportunity Here (Score:3, Interesting)
No good business model goes unpunished (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, cell companies offer free in-system minutes to encourage friends & family to recruit new customers -- a nice little viral marketing ploy and something that, I'm sure, reduces stress in friends & family cell phone conversations. But it also creates an opportunity because those free in-system minutes are worth something if they can be somehow converted to out-of-system calls. Hence the motivations for this little hack.
Or consider the case of the single-use video camera [slashdot.org]. The unit is offered at a subsidized price (less than the true price of the camera) with the expectation that the consumer will return the camera and pay for the DVD conversion service. With a bit of hacking, though, a person can get a low-grade digital video camera for only single-use price of about $20.
Technology allows people to exploit these situations (and publish the results), much to the chagrin of the businesses that use these models. I wonder if this will drive businesses to a true pay-for-what-you-get mode of operation. No cell minutes will be free because it will be too easy to abuse free minutes. No single-use device will be as cheap -- it will require a deposit for the value of the asset.
That technology allows people to use products and services in unintended ways will force companies to change their products or business models to either lock-out unintended uses or build in a charge for the cost of those uses.
Re:No good business model goes unpunished (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't prove, but highly suspect, that per-minute calling is nothing more than milking the customer. I
Re:No good business model goes unpunished (Score:3, Interesting)
Usage patterns have changed over the years and the costs of switches and trunks have declined considerab
sounds good to me (Score:2)
If they also stop vastly overcharging for other services, I'd be all for it. Back-of-the-envelope, GSM voice bandwidth can send 60,000 characters per minute -- why does a 20 character text message cost the same as a minute of voice? Because that's
Re:No good business model goes unpunished (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, they like getting an upfront fee in exchange for use of t
SmartMedia (Score:2, Informative)
Plus, the camera remains single use -- how many solder/desolder cycles is that chip gonna survive?
Depends. The chip is electrically identical to a SmartMedia card, so (provided you can successfully desolder the chip) why not just solder on a SmartMedia socket?
Another way (Score:5, Funny)
*ducks*
free? (Score:2)
The potential is there. (Score:2, Informative)
Since this upcoming VoIP company is an offshoot of a Wireless ISP, we also get to hear all the talk about WiMAX. Intel and Nokia are teaming up to implement it on a massive scale. Assuming that the frequency licensing does not become an iss
VoIP to GSM gateways exist everywhere (Score:2)
These boxes are the bane of every data centre in Europe. You walk around and see a cabinet with a few of these boxes, a single VOIP router, and hundreds of magnetic car mount GSM antennas around the inside. Any data comms equipment with 10 meters gets huge numbers of errors because of a
Re:VoIP to GSM gateways exist everywhere (Score:2)
Well, other than the fact that the largest wireless company in the US is GSM (Cingular), and the fact that nearly half of cellular users in the US use GSM, and the fact that the US is T-Mobile's 2nd largest market, I guess you're right. Having more GSM users than any European nation certainly doesn't qualify the US as part of the "GSM World".
"stone-age american market"
Are you talking about the "stone age" American market where
It's been done... (Score:2)
Is handy for when she's at school, but who wants to call that much from a cell? Especially considering quality, it's not really worth it for most people who don't run around that much, and tmobile's reception is spotty. Will be a lot better when companies start setting things like this up so cell's be
I appreciate the ingenuity, but (Score:2)
bah (Score:2, Informative)
1. Calling my Asterix box and having it forward to regular numbers
2. Calling my Dial-Up Server and surfing the internet
Although the DUN Server is a little slow (9600 baud), it still serves it purpose of retrieving email. I used to have unlimited text messaging on my cell plan, I could just send commands (ie shutdown -r now) to my servers, but that option got removed.
Not new idea.. just implementation... (Score:2, Interesting)
Weekly /. Features (Score:4, Funny)
Feeding the troll. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Link to Microsoft.com? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Link to Microsoft.com? (Score:2)
Re:I just tried this! Here is a transcript... (Score:4, Funny)