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New Keyboard Technology

Posted by CmdrTaco on Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:32 AM
from the oh-please-gimme-some-of-that dept.
Input Devices
An anonymous reader sent in linkage to a story running on a few places about a new customizable keyboard. It's a bit beyond anything you've probably seen before. Also tom's has more.
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story
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  • Available in retail outlets? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CyricZ (887944) on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:34AM (#12914553)
    I always hear about these great keyboards, and I'd love to try one out, but they're never available in retail outlets like Circuit City or Masters Electronics. I always see your typical rectangular keyboard there, or those ergo keyboards. But never any of the really innovative ones like this! If they could get these sold in larger retail stores, then perhaps people would actually start transitioning to them. As long as I have to order them online, I won't buy them.
    • As long as these keyboards continue to be $140+, we probably won't see them in retail outlets (at least, none of the big chains). These things just don't sell like a regular keyboard would (to your average consumer).

      • Re:Available in retail outlets? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by CyricZ (887944) on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:56AM (#12914644)
        Market economics dictates that in order for the cost to go down, more people must purchase the good. But then more people won't purchase the good unless it's at a lower price. Indeed, this may very well be a case of market recursivity.
    • My take on it is that I'd love to try it out... Maybe I could find a way to use it after playing with it in the store...perhaps if there was some type of demo set up to show the advantage of using the thing in word/excel and doom3.

      But all I can see is a picture of a guys hand situated over a glossy black box with keys scatterd about.

      Too bad, becasue the thing probably is cool...but probably doesn't get my $140.

      wbs.

      • Re:Available in retail outlets? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by bonehead (6382) on Sunday June 26 2005, @12:52PM (#12914900)
        If you want this keyboard, and you can afford it, then buy it

        What about someone who's on the fence about wanting one, and would like to walk into a store and actually lay their hands on the physical unit as part of making up their mind.

        A few photos and some text on a web page is no substitute for walking into a brick and mortar and actually holding the physical product in your hands.
        • What about someone who's on the fence about wanting one, and would like to walk into a store and actually lay their hands on the physical unit as part of making up their mind.

          Yes, that's a very good point. Too bad the grandparent poster didn't make it.

          What he seemed to be saying (to me anyway) was that he had already made up his mind. He wanted it, but refused to buy it unless it was sold by a big box retailer in his area. That's what didn't make any sense to me.

                • If you look at their site they have pretty well defined conditions where for how to return a product. (Basically they require it to be in a "good as new" condition and with everything included.) If you fulfill that you can send it back within 30 days of purchase. That seems like enough time to try it out.

                  If you are worried about it look for other user comments and see if anyone has had problems with returning their their products. If others have had no problems then is seems reasonable that they are trustw
          • I think the point he's trying to make is that he wants to see it in real life and maibe even try it before he buys it, somthing that isn't possible when buying online.

            Probably to make shure he isn't buying the famous cat in a bag.

  • Obligatory... (Score:5, Funny)

    by charon_1 (562573) on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:35AM (#12914558)
    Now I can have my CTRL+ALT+DEL keys in range for easy access!

  • Pictures (Score:5, Informative)

    by SiGiN (679749) <sigin AT dephine DOT org> on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:36AM (#12914563) Homepage
    Picture 1 [com.com]
    Picture 2 [com.com]
    Quite neat concept.

    • Re:Pictures (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Bastian (66383)
      I find it rather amusing that the keyboard is called "Ergodex," but in the photo the guy who is using it has his wrist folded back on itself, which is supposedly one of the worst no-nos in input device ergonomics.

  • Bad solution to a problem which is already solved (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tweakt (325224) * on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:37AM (#12914568) Homepage
    That thing looks painful to use. I have enough trouble with a normal keyboard layout, but there's really no point to putting keys anywhere but directly under your fingertips where you don't have to move to reach them.... which is exactly what the CLAW has solved:

    http://www.claw.com.au/ [claw.com.au]

    (It's been out for 5 years now too)
    • You totally miss the point. The keys have glue on the underside, so you can put them in just about any way you like. Just because they put them stupidly in the review, you don't have to do it!
    • The Belkin Nostromo n52 (http://www.tomshardware.com/game/200403061/ [tomshardware.com]) is sort of the same concept, with a bit of a compomise between features and ergonomics. Not all of the buttons are directly beneath a finger tip, but the use of shift states increases the number of configurable buttons to 104. D-pad and scroll wheel are there, too.
    • the CLAW

      The CLAW has 10 "keys" and every FPS made in the last 5+ years has dozens of keys that are needed to play well. The reviews I've seen don't mention any way around this problem, which to me says there isn't one.

      And don't bring up that you can map the keys to do different things. That's not what I mean, I want to be able to move (4 keys), walk, crouch, jump (3 more), go next/previous weapon (2 more), select each weapon type (usually 9), talk (1) with only my team (1) or with everybody nearby (1).
          • You can eliminate 9 of those keys if you'd use the scroll wheel on your mouse to switch weapons

            +

            You can even go so far as to be able to map your mouse to strafe if you got a tilting scroll wheel.

            You try strafing around an enemy and shooting him without accidentally switching weapons. Strafe is _the_ most essential movement in FPS when you play against human opponents.
    • It seems like this keyboard only gives you the power to make your situation worse.

      On a normal keyboard, with the keys staggered, each finger can reach five keys easily - the one it's hovering over, and the two above and two below it.

      On this fancy one, they have the keys arranged in a grid (which is the only other basic key pattern I can think of when you're working with a flat surface). In this situation, each finger can only reach three keys easily. And I fail to see what advantage straight up and down
    • That claw doesn't look to comfortable to me...

      I have CTS (Carpal Tunnel) and my wrist bones have been fused in both hands since birth. I can't use any funky gadget like that one.

      However.. having a keyboard where I could put the keys anywhere I want is a rediculously great trade up for me, and it'll help speed up my typing even more. One of the problems I have with English are the letters like Q and X. I'd much rather have a button like "Qu" and "Ch", or how about "Ea" and "ou", or any other super comm
  • Looks like a pretty cool keyboard for hardcore gamers. But I just can't justify spending $149 on a keyboard.

  • wow (Score:3, Funny)

    by pHatidic (163975) on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:39AM (#12914580) Homepage
    Press Command-Spacebar to switch the layout from Qwerty to Dvorak in 10.4 - 0 dollars

    Getting your own thread on Fark with pictures of Darwin after you starve to death clutching your $150 keyboard -- priceless

  • I hve 1 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Timesprout (579035) on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:39AM (#12914582)
    eve though there re oly 25 kes it works gret

  • Egonomic? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:41AM (#12914587)
    How exactly can they claim that this is ergonomic, when they leave the layout to users, who may know nothing about ergonomics, and thus, create joint-damaging layouts?
    • I think the presumed market is people who stop doing things that hurt, ie "hmm ... the key over there makes my hand hurt. *move key*". Obviously there are large segments of the population who would note "hmm, this really hurts" and continue to do it anyway. It's the old story of the man who visits his doctor, "doc, it hurts when I bend my arm like this", and gets the reply, "hmm, interesting. I'd suggest you not bend your arm like that".

  • Where's the damn keyboards with LCDs in the keys? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 26 2005, @11:46AM (#12914612)
    Seems obvious, really. If I want to switch to an APL or Dvorak keyboard (or in a multinational european environment, different people using the same computer have different national keyboard preferences), the glyphs on the keyboard should change!

    Combined with repositionable keys like the subject of this story, that would be pretty interesting.
    • Oh, right, yeah. And the next thing you're going to demand is being able to change to an APL font without changing the spastic golf ball.

      This is the real world, buddy.

      KFG
    • You could build a keyboard out of these switches [nkkswitches.com] but at this point it'd be a little large (i don't think the switches are available in key-sizes), and they're expensive. Nifty idea though.
    • A keyboard with LCDs on each key seems like it would be needlessly expensive. You can get full LCD-touch screens where you can make a keyboard, but even this has a very niche appeal: it doesn't give the same feedback of a regular keyboard and, of course, the LCD is prone to getting dirty & misregistering strokes (especially in a multiuser environment).

      It might be cool to hack one of those virtual keyboards [amazon.com]. You know, the ones that project the keys via a laser [cnet.com]. This would be cheaper & more maint
  • ... NEXT: the UBëRDX1*

    now not only do you have to memorize blank keys, you you have to memorize where you placed them! Genious!

    *extra cost of 100 dollars to remove paint.

  • ...but I seem to have misplaced my "post to slashdot" keys...

    I dunno... it seems cool, but I've spent my whole life getting used to the standard "QWERTY" setup and it seems I'd just be confusing myself rearranging the keys.

  • Fire mouse click event from the keyboard. I think my productivity would increase a great deal if I could do this. I've looked and haven't seen this anywhere.


  • By shipping with a variety of "hax" built in.

    Just what every gamer needs.
  • Well, maybe not.... I doubt your average high end gamer can do much better then the already available input modes for games that have had billions of dollars and over a dozen years of research put into them. And isn't this what hotkeys are for? Maybe for $50, I'd get one, but for $150, nah, I think this $12 IBM keyboard (or another alternative that isn't too much over $50) will do just fine....

  • I actually have one of these (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Gavin Scott (15916) * on Sunday June 26 2005, @12:38PM (#12914823)
    When I heard about this a couple months ago it was of course a new and uniqe gadget and so I couldn't resist ordering one. Got the second set of keys and a spare plastic top panel so you can swap between a couple key layouts quickly.

    The hardware is well made, the keys are high quality, and the software works fine (running under XP SP2 on a Dell gaming laptop).

    I haven't done that much with it really yet. I think the problem with the device is that it basically does a good job of putting a lot of buttons within reach of your hand, but then a $10 keyboard also does an excellent job of doing this.

    But the product does what it claims to, so if you want lots of customizable buttons I would have no reservations about recommending the Ergodex.

    G.

  • I use one everyday (Score:5, Informative)

    by Bazuul (561189) on Sunday June 26 2005, @12:39PM (#12914831)
    I bought an Ergodex keyboard exclusively for gaming a few months ago. It took them 4 weeks to fill the order -- apparently, they haven't been able to scale large enough to distribute through the retail chains.

    Being able to move the keys around is just one of many features that make the Ergodex valuable to me. You can also program complex macros and key-chords to a single keystroke on the fly. You can fine tune the timing of the individual keystrokes to the millisecond.

    Right now I have my Ergodex set up for World of Warcraft. Anyone who has a few high level characters in the game know how quickly you fill up your toolbars with hotkeys and macros. The ergodex allows me to have an extra couple rows of hotkeys placed exactly where I want them. It also lets me chain precicely timed combos in a way that WoW's UI won't let you do at all.

    The Ergodex will store profiles for different programs and automatically switch to that profile when you run the program as well. The buttons have great tactile feedback, and when you anchor them on the Ergodex they do not shift or wiggle one bit. You can also buy extra keys and an extra clear transparent keytray so that you can swap out entire sets.

    At $150, it's not cheap. But considering that i've spent $400 for my graphics card that I'll end up replacing in 2 years, I expect to get a lot more bang for my buck with this upgrade. I wouldn't consider gaming without one now.
  • The system, which sells for $149.95 on the Ergodex site, started shipping in March. It will soon be available through resellers such as online retail gear seller ThinkGeek and game PC maker Falcon Northwest.

    WHat a coincidence, you'll be able to buy it at ThinkGeek.
  • A keyboard for EMACS!

  • Buckling spring? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by vidarlo (134906) <vidarlo AT freakforum DOT nu> on Sunday June 26 2005, @01:30PM (#12915084) Homepage

    No, I tought so. I'm still clacking away at my old IBM Buckling Spring [wikipedia.org] keyboard. This keyboard has lasted since 1987, and is the best one I've ever came by to write on. So it's such a pity that they can't make new keyboards, with all the fashionate hotkeys, and loose keys (yes, I know this keyboard has loose keycaps) and such, with proper Buckling Spring switches under each key.

    Sure, it'd cost twice as much, but maybe I for once would get a new keyboard? Ok, I'm not the target group for this new keyboard, but still. If I found a new and attractive keyboard (which I find all the time, like logitech's wireless), but with real buckling spring, I'd buy it at once, even if it'd cost a few hundred dollars.

    Those rubber-dome keyboards is just shitty to write on! So if anyone knows of a black keyboard, that ain't so deep as the Model M, has some hotkeys and has real Buckling Spring mechanism, I'll buy it at once.

    Me wants a real keyboard!

    • Re:Buckling spring? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Noksagt (69097) on Sunday June 26 2005, @01:45PM (#12915167) Homepage
      I love my Model M. If you want new buckling spring boards, the place to get them is pckeyboard.com [pckeyboard.com] (which was actually linked in that wikipedia article). Not only do they have many ayouts [pckeyboard.com] (some with a windows key or even an integrated trackball or one of those nipples that is on the thinkpad), but they do custom builds.
    • Today's FPS games were *made* to be played with a keyboard. Using anything but a keyboard and mouse is akin to dropping your pants and grabbing your ankles.
    • Spoken like a true console gamer (don't be offended, my other gaming box is Cube ;) ) While console games are built from the ground up to take advantage of a controller, it's nearly impossible to play a native PC FPS with a controller. For example: Metroid Prime 1 & 2 allows you to run around really well in two dimensions, but the third dimension (up and down) implementation is somewhat clunky. To make up for this, they've got an auto-target function. Compare this to Doom 3, for example, where witho

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