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Dell Axim X50 Running Linux

Posted by timothy on Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:10 PM
from the tempty-tempty dept.
Handhelds Software Hardware Linux
Venture37 writes "the guys at handhelds.org have managed to boot the linux kernel on a Dell Axim X50 handheld, the project is at alpha stages, you can grab a copy of the files from handhelds.org or fisherss.com."
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  • Some may find this article informative.. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-em bdev.html [ibm.com]
    It discusses the various pros and cons of file systems, graphic systems, etc.

    • Re:Advantages and disadvantages of linux on a PDA (Score:5, Informative)

      by treff89 (874098) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @11:55PM (#12820873)
      As that article explores, Linux on a PDA is very much dependent on what you want to use it for. If you want a miniature computer which can do (most) things an ix86 can, great, go for it - Linux will allow you to compile many, many applications. However, if you just want to use your PDA as a PDA, the operating system already on there is specially created for your hardware and use, and unless you absolutely do not want to use it, there's no point in compounding the amount of time taken to set an appointment. (Although, I hear from my Windows Mobile friends, it's not very efficient at all.) PalmOS takes less taps to make an appointment than WM200x, (1 hard button press and 1 screen tap to be exact.) So basically, one would use Linux for more features, and to correct previous flaws (after all, it is OSS!)
  • But does it run Lin... i mean Win... i mean OS Xi?


    I know - it's bad. Mod me down.

  • Also Toshiba (Score:4, Informative)

    by espergreen (849246) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @11:50PM (#12820848) Homepage
    There is a similar project for Toshiba pdas. http://www.mnementh.co.uk/eseries/ [mnementh.co.uk]

  • eh, zaurus for me (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jnf (846084) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @11:53PM (#12820860)
    After spending over a year both contributing and waiting for the linux port to become useable on my ipaq 2215, I decided to just buy a pda that supported linux natively. I commend these guys for their hard efforts, but really I wanted to be able to program _my stuff_ on it, not spend all my time programming to get a not-so-stable linux port that is only useable 30 seconds to a minute at a time.
    perhaps that axim people will have better luck, i surely hope so. But really if this is what you are looking for you should consider buying one that supports linux natively. Not only will it save you some time but you also get to put your money where your mouth is and support companies that support you.

  • Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Deviant (1501) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @11:57PM (#12820881)
    I have a Dell Axim X30 and I could not be more impressed with MS's latest PDA OS offerings. The unit is cheap, light, fast, stable and with pretty respectable battery life. It has loads of impressive software availible for it. I had a Palm based PDA/Cellphone hybrid for two years and had gotten used to Grafiti - the Transcriber handwriting recognition that lets you just write whole sentances on the screen simply amazing and on an entirely different level. On top of normal note taking and scheduling I can view/edit word documents and excel spreadsheets. I can surf the web including secure online banking sites and check my email with a 802.11b wireless VPN connection. I can watch videos and play music. I can take over PCs using RDC or vnc and connect to them with ssh and ftp. I can read books and manuals in either the Adobe or MS e-book formats. I have never had a problem with any of these things - a testament to how well it has stood up to my extensive use.

    From what I gather from the site Linux is nowhere near there on most, if not all, of these points. For your average user Linux might be there on the desktop, and it is my desktop OS, but it certainly is nowhere near there on the PDA. I enjoy tinkering with my PC OS but when it comes to my PDA it has to just work and it is for getting serious work done quickly. It is the device I turn to when all else fails to get the job done. This is one Linux user that is not going to be running Linux on his PDA. I think it is many years away from being close to functional in the way that I need it to be and the way MS's product is today. I give credit where it is due and MS is due it for their Windows Mobile OS.
    • Is that why many companies use Linux as their PDA OS of choice?

    • Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mr. Hankey (95668) on Wednesday June 15 2005, @12:45AM (#12821018) Homepage
      You have a point about Linux for typical PDA use. I've used Linux on PDAs in several incarnations but I'm still most productive with my PalmOS-based Sony Clie. It does everything I want, is easy to use and has been very stable. On the other hand, I think it's great that there is further development with Linux on mobile devices such as this.

      Although most people may not know this, the port of Linux to the iPaq brought forth several nice embedded systems and even commercial products. Fluke for example created a Linux-based wireless network scanner using an iPaq. We use one at work, it's much lighter than a laptop and works with much less configuration. Odds are the device would have been slower to market and probably have had fewer features if the Linux port to iPaq handhelds had not existed.

      This story may not be interesting for everyone here, but to state that a Linux port to the PDA is irrelevent would be short sighted at best. There are many possibilities for a device which can be hacked up and turned into new products, and that's what excites me to see stories like this.
      • The Axim X50v has some extremely nice specs which are, unfortunately, completely unused by Windows Mobile 2003 SE. Things like the graphics card, the 600Mhz acceleration, the VGA graphics...All completely wasted under Windows.
      • I'm the founder of a OSS restaurant management software ( http://www.myhandyrestaurant.org/ [myhandyrestaurant.org]) and we're really looking at these linux ports on PDAs, because it would be the best solution for our customers. If we could hack a cheap PDA and install linux, we could create an ad-hoc distribution having only a browser (the application is web-based) and vpn connection autostarting at boot. This would really be fool-proof, plus would save battery power, thanks to wise process administration (unneeded desktop enviro
      • My mother uses a Zaurus in tandum with her PalmOs PDA.
        She dosen't use a desktop.

        She started using a Palm 7 with the intent of using a wireless PDA exclusively for her Internet access.
        She's upgraded a few times.

        Her next planned upgrade is to a PalmOne Treo 650. This PDA/Phone can be used as a wireless modem for a computer. The Zaurus can be that computer.

        The plan is to set up so mom can use her Zaurus when her Treo isn't powerful enough.

        Step two is to build a camra that supports bluetooth. The Linux PDA

    • Linux on handhelds is rock solid and widely used (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cahiha (873942) on Wednesday June 15 2005, @02:33AM (#12821336)
      I enjoy tinkering with my PC OS but when it comes to my PDA it has to just work and it is for getting serious work done quickly. It is the device I turn to when all else fails to get the job done.

      There are dozens of handheld devices with Linux pre-installed and supported (often in innovative form factors and applications). There is nothing to tinker: they turn on and are rock solid. They also have lots of software available for them.

      Handhelds.org is an effort to bring Linux to unsupported devices, in addition to the supported devices. Why do people do that? Because they can and because they like to have an even broader range of hardware available to them. Generally, installing Linux on unsupported devices involves some effort, but in my experience, the end result is as solid as it is on supported devices.
    • WinCe/mobile has PalmOS beat on one thing only; natural handwriting recognition.

      You should know though (apparently having had a treo) that palm supports word/excel better than win mobile does. Formatting, saved files etc. It's a well known irony that palm does better than MS at it's own format.
      All the rest you mention...palm does that too, effortlessly (although why you'd want to read stuff in .lit I really don't know).

      "but when it comes to my PDA it has to just work and it is for getting serious work don
      • Technically, it's not Palm that supports MS Office formats so well, it's Dataviz's DocumentsToGo, which comes free with most Palms.

        I agree in general, though: Palm devices are still amongst the best general PDA devices.

        (and yes, I do work for Dataviz)
      • WinCe/mobile has PalmOS beat on one thing only; natural handwriting recognition.

        Even that depends on what you actually want from your handwriting engine. The PPC handwriting engine is easy to learn and does fairly well on normal text. But it is far from the fastest handwriting input method around, in particular if you need letter accurate input of things like names.
    • I have an X50v with WM2003SE. I love the hardware, but I couldn't be more disappointed with the OS:

      1) It's temperamental. Like Windows on the desktop, it occasionally slows down for no reason, apps stop responding or close, etc. I have to stop and restart drivers (which sometimes means soft-resetting the device). It's much more stable than it was back in the pre-PPC days, but it's still flakey compared to, say, Linux and OS X.

      2) The process for loading applications can be restrictive and convoluted.

  • Project Details (Score:5, Informative)

    by Taxilian (516595) on Wednesday June 15 2005, @12:27AM (#12820965)
    I have been working with fisherss on this project (I'm Richard), and I thought I'd post a summary of the status, for any interested. We have a linux kernel booting, but we don't yet have wirless drivers working. USB networking is also in progress. This should go a little faster because the x50 (and x50v) use the same chipset for the wireless network that the ipaq hx4700 does, which is further along in the port. We hope to soon have a graphical interface up, and I will be trying to load the kernel on my x50 just as soon as I can get the files from Fisherss (I've been gone for a few days). It will probably be 6 months or so before linux is really usable on this device, and it could be longer before we can completely remove windows ce from the device. Anyone with low level distribution, drivers, and/or kernel experience who is interested in contributing to the project, we could definitely use your help! We learn quickly, but this is new to us... we just want to get past the limitations imposed by windows ce! =]
    • I've heard/seen pics that the palm t3's and later ipaq ppc's (iirc) have near identical hardware (at least in terms of circuitboard/cpu). What are the chances of getting this project working on a t3?
  • What is the lowest cost handheld device on which I could do Haskell [haskell.org] development? Presumably the most sensible thing would be to try a Linux device as Haskell might be tricky to build for any other handheld OS. Would this device be a good option?

  • As an X30, X30H and iPaq (HP) owner (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tod_miller (792541) on Wednesday June 15 2005, @02:17AM (#12821276) Journal
    I am very keen to remove my reliance on the poor (yet just usable) tools. The RAPI, the cecopy etc was a bitch to get a real development cycle going, using Java (superwaba.com.br).

    As a veteran of 3 wireless applications that link to a remote interface I have seen a great deal of potential in the handheld paradigm, there was a slashdot link about a many to many pradigm in computing screens, where angles dictate what you saw, well my idea if different handhelds have differnet views on a computer system, like thin clients.

    Right now the ipaq is an up and coming bluetooth tv remote control, which shows the tv guide on the ipaq, and allows you to email using the qwerty keyboard, or web surf (built in apps).

    Right now it is a bad set of programs, and hacks, with linux opening up the system, I can make customised system designed for this.

    Imagine, watching seinfeld on xvid through your RF link to you 42" screen, from your PC, but then watching satellite channels on yoru handheld, while you check for latest news on an earthquake, and then at a push of a button send the image you are seeing to the tv screen.

    Yes, it is already here, but not working nicely.

    Wray for linux!

  • H1940 also on this list (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RedPhoenix (124662) on Wednesday June 15 2005, @02:19AM (#12821281)
    The IPAQ H1940/H1930 has also had some recent progress - Opie/GPE can now be booted via an NFS-mouted root, or from a ext2 loopback filesystem, mounted on a FAT16 SD card. Still a little work to be done, to replace the flash with a boot image though.

    H1940/30's are pretty cheap 2nd hand these days, and would make a reasonable linux handheld.

    Red.

  • Just became service unavailable (Score:4, Informative)

    by tod_miller (792541) on Wednesday June 15 2005, @02:26AM (#12821313) Journal
    Fisherss' home page Last update: 6-14-2005 News: 6-14-2005 First Linux booting on DELL X50. We finally succedeed. The serial output of this alpha kernel version is available here. For this testing kernel, you can get output through serial cable only. After the penguin appeared for about 20 seconds, you can see some kernel mssages at the LCD (that means the framebuffer driver works), but the font is too small, so they can't be recognised. and then it stops there. That's not a problem, making GUI work is more and more easier than making kernel work :) I just tested it one my x50 (416) machine, so I don't know if it will also works on x50 (512) or x50v. If you have tested it, please tell me :P The necessary files can be downloaded here: haret.exe zImagex30s default.txt initrd NOTE: This kernel version is just for debugging, you can't see GUI at this time . And it will destroy all your data in ram, so make sure you have backed up you data. Make a copy of your rom image is also recommended, it is safe on my machine, but I am not so sure if it will be on yours.
    2005-4-21

    Successfully got serial kernel output.

    sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab69b000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world ... sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab667000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world ... Testing 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab671000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world .sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab5ef000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world
    2005-4-19 Great news, I have done my selfmade serial cable , it works fine. So the following steps should be quick. Thank you my friend reactos , thanks for your great help. After clean up my hundreds of cables, I will post the total debug information from serial port and complete my personal home page. And....... maybe I will post the practical serial cable making method and the images. PS: Getting past junk character filter was a bitch
  • Wonderful, a PDA that does... nothing at all. I suppose I could always amuse myself doing directory listings...
  • but noone wrote a post on /. to inform the masses...
    too bad but it's probably because develope do not want to many lusers asking questions arount untill things get a little more stable...

    • Re:to boldly go... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      http://www.freeos.com/articles/3800/ [freeos.com]
    • Well it would seem it is the next logical step for this group if they haven't already. Their mission statement of TFA is as follows:

      What is handhelds.org? Our goal is to encourage and facilitate the creation of open source software for use on handheld and wearable computers. We welcome participation and sponsorship by individuals, groups and companies seeking to further this goal. (About handhelds.org)

      By wearable computers this would naturally cover a wristwatch with an IC inside it.

    • Re:to boldly go... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by PsychicX (866028) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @11:28PM (#12820752)
      You can also install it on a dead badger. [strangehorizons.com]

      TBH though, I don't see the hype. So, it runs Linux, and does absolutely nothing useful. Big freaking deal. Lots of geek points, yes, but minus several million engineer points in the practicality department?

      • Re:to boldly go... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by NanoGator (522640) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @11:53PM (#12820866) Homepage Journal
        "TBH though, I don't see the hype. So, it runs Linux, and does absolutely nothing useful. Big freaking deal. Lots of geek points, yes, but minus several million engineer points in the practicality department?"

        Gotta say I concurr. Supposing I did buy an Axim and put Linux on it, what useful stuff could I do with it that I couldn't before? This is a serious question. These days, you can almost affordably buy one of these with a 480 by 640 display, 3d accellerator, and equip it with a 4 gig micro drive. Any real advantage to putting Linux on it?

        • Re:to boldly go... (Score:5, Funny)

          by LordSah (185088) * on Wednesday June 15 2005, @12:00AM (#12820891)
          Any real advantage to putting Linux on it?

          Keeps girls away.
        • For some selected applications, sure.
          For the average user? Probably not.

          A couple of possibilities:
          * Getting openvpn to run, so that you can connect back to a linux gateway, whilst on the road.
          * Being able to share contact/appointment data between evolution and the handheld (multisync/synce is a bit touchy at the moment).
          * Being able to install applications without needing a windows box hanging around.
          * Wireless LAN sniffing for security evaluations (kismet, etc).
          * Coding on the road (if you're VERY despera
        • Basically with Linux on your phone you can recompile any app for Linux to run on the PDA. The cross compatibility is better than with Windows and Window Mobile.

          From what I've seen the GUI libraries are slimmed versions of QT and GTK.

      • Re:to boldly go... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MoralHazard (447833) on Wednesday June 15 2005, @01:40AM (#12821154)
        You want practical? It's a blue-sky open source development project, you nitwit. The potential applications are legion. But let me give you a run-down of several of the uses to which I've put my own HP Ipaq (running Linux from handhelds.org!):

        1) Mobile FULL-FEATURED WiFi scanner and auditing kit. Run Kismet, Airsnort, and a lot of other Linux-only tools (any Windows equivalents cost $$$ and have stripped-down handheld versions) for serious portable work. 100x easier than carting a laptop around. Break WEP keys, perform breakin demos, and hunt down rogue APs with a pocket-sized monster.

        2) During the NYC blackout, my ISP was still up and laptops had juice, but my routers ran down the UPS batteries in about 30 minutes. Jury-rigging a car battery, some DC-DC conversion stuff, and an Ipaq w/ PCMCIA sleeve holding 2x PCMCIA network adapters = an instant router that stayed up, routing 1.5 Mbps DSL to five users, for 12 hours. Do you know how much a 12-hour UPS costs??

        3) Since the Ipaq (like the Axim) has a microphone and WiFi, it makes a killer wireless microphone. Turn on a recording app, stream the data via wireless to a laptop somewhere nearby, and you've got at least an hour of recording time on batteries alone. Makes an excellent conference-room bug, for checking up on meetings that you can't attend or negotiations that you shouldn't know about--and you record all day if you plug your Ipaq in to charge and then "forget" about it.

        4) Portable streaming MP3 player. I've got kerberos-protected NFS shares full of music, and I can stream music out of those shares from anywhere I can reach my APs.

        The point is that the sky's the limit with Linux--whatever you can think up, within the limits of RAM and battery life (which are pretty substantial!) is yours to do.
        • your # makes me think it could also make a decent voip phone. Can it run skype (IIRC skype requires a full xserver and qt3)?

          -kaplanfx
        • I mean, I know this is Slashdot, but please tell me that you can bear to be without the internet for 12 hours?

          You could have gone outside (yeah, sunlight won't actually melt you) or read a book, or in the worst case, you must have saved some porn on the laptop... :P
      • So, it runs Linux, and does absolutely nothing useful. Big freaking deal

        Sheesh. Kids nowadays. What's the world coming to?

      • Linux on your PDA is a great way to take your favorite applications with you. I use gpsdrive on my iPAQ H5450, many other GTK-Applications do run under GPE, and it's pretty cool to use your handheld device in your universities WLAN/VPN (hello vpnc) and browse Wikipedia on your palm. I also use SSH to get home and browse my E-Mail via mutt.

        I don't see why I should run another OS than Linux on my PDA, the user interface is quite nice, I can get a wide variety of applications, and I have the possiblity to inf

      • Re:to boldly go... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by vhogemann (797994) <victor@hogemann.e[ ]br ['ti.' in gap]> on Wednesday June 15 2005, @06:13AM (#12821911) Homepage
        Once the port gets done you'll be able to use Opie or GPE with it.

        Opie is the OpenSource fork of Qtopia, the same interface that powers the Sharp Zaurus. It's quite usable, and I installed it on my iPaq 3970 without any problems. As a matter of fact, handwriting recgnition is better than WindowsCE one.

        Check those screenshots http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/ [handhelds.org]

        GPE is a GTK+2 based enviroment for handhelds, is a little bit cruder than Opie, but it uses a X server instead of the frame buffer, so it's easier to port software to it. There's already stuff like SNES9x, Quake and Doom running on it!

        Again, some screenshots http://handhelds.org/~gpe/gallery/ [handhelds.org]

        Also, one may guess that Nokia's Maemo could get ported to it.

        So, there's lot of usefull things to do with it once the port is stable.

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