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Space Needle To Become WiMax Antenna

Posted by Zonk on Thu May 05, 2005 09:48 AM
from the your-landmarks-at-work dept.
Wireless Networking Hardware
Technofusion writes "Seattle, Washington has found a new use for their aging Space Needle. Three companies have teamed up to turn the Space Needle into a giant WiMAX antenna. Bruce Chatterley, CEO of Speakeasy, announced it will be the biggest deployment of it's kind in North America with six towers, one placed on the Space Needle and five others around the city , beaming a signal over a 5 square mile area. Don't put away those 802.11b/g cards just yet, as WiMAX is projected to cost $500 a month for 1.5Mb service."
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  • Giant Cell Phone Tower? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bfizzle (836992) on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:50AM (#12441311)
    Does anyone know if any other communication devices are mounted on top the space needle?

  • $500 a month? (Score:4, Funny)

    by robyannetta (820243) * on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:52AM (#12441320) Homepage
    That's a rather large fee just to read Slashdot while stuck in traffic.

    Oh, it's Slashdot. It's worth it.

  • It costs how much? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by raider_red (156642) on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:52AM (#12441324) Journal
    In Seattle, there's probably enough coffee shops to blanket the entire city with wi-fi. Who do they think is actually going to pay those rates?

    • Re:It costs how much? (Score:5, Funny)

      by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 (812236) on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:00AM (#12441415) Journal
      Tea-drinkers
    • In Seattle, there's probably enough coffee shops to blanket the entire city with wi-fi. Who do they think is actually going to pay those rates?

      Businesses in the industrial area that are in line of site of the space needle? Those towers on the Space Needle side of Capital Hill? Or how about those coffee shops that provide wifi access them selves.

    • I live near Seattle, and whenever I'm there, I crack out the laptop with the WiFi card to do a little hunting for wide-open access points. There are so many of them it's not even funny - there's no need to pay for Internet service in Seattle; just mooch off of some unsuspec-- er, I mean, gracious bandwidth donor! ;-)

      Once, I even managed to check my e-mail while moving south on I-5. (Traffic was really bad, and no, I wasn't at the wheel...)
    • Maybe they think that the coffee shops trying to blanket the city in wifi will use this as a backbone to provide Internet access for their wifi hotspots. Less expensive and less of a hassle than getting a T1 line run. Also it has provisions for increasing bandwidth without needing to upgrade equipment.

  • Giant Antenna, NOT (Score:5, Informative)

    by lildogie (54998) on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:52AM (#12441329)
    The Space Needle will be a platform for a more conventional antenna, not an antenna itself.

    Those who live in Seattle know that the Space Needle is shorter than most of the downtown buildings, but it looks tall because zoning keeps high-rise buildings away from it. And there are plenty of higher points where additional antennas could be placed, some of them not even on high-rise buildings (eg. hills).

    • Re:Giant Antenna, NOT (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Analogy Man (601298) on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:30AM (#12441705)
      but it looks tall because zoning keeps high-rise buildings away from it....

      and photographers have a secret spot on Queen Anne Hill that with the compressed perspective of the right lenses make the Space Needle look like it towers over the skyline.

    • zoning keeps high-rise buildings away from it.

      Maybe those same zoning regulations also help the range, with no pesky large buildings to block the signal...

    • the Space Needle is shorter than most of the downtown buildings, but it looks tall because zoning keeps high-rise buildings away from it.

      Speculating: given the range and line-of-sightness of the signal, this may actually make the space needle a fine spot - being uncrowded and high enough, from there you can hit all the office buildings straight-on, instead of towering over them. Maybe from the top of the B of A building you could get better range out to the city limits, but not as good coverage to the tar

  • I say (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sprotch (832431) on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:53AM (#12441331)
    They should turn it into one huge Tesla weapon, Red Alert style. That should thwart off terrorists!

  • Doesn't *anyone* RTFM anymore? (Score:5, Informative)

    by TripMaster Monkey (862126) * on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:54AM (#12441342)


    From TFS:


    Don't put away those 802.11b/g cards just yet, as WiMAX is projected to cost $500 a month for 1.5Mb service.


    And from TFA:


    Chatterley says it'll be cheaper and much faster than the 1.5-megabit, T-1 service many businesses currently use.

    "(Now), when you go above that speed, it's going to run about $6,000 a month," Chatterley said once he was back inside on firm ground. "What we're introducing today is the delivery of a 6 megabit --versus 1.5 -- data communications solution available for right around $800 a month. (That's) versus the 1.5 (megabit) solution that goes for about $500 a month."


    I know that editors can't be bothered to check the accuracy of stories, but you think that at least the submitters would RTFM...
    • Plus it says that this price is for businesses, and that plans for use by private people are "probably a year away" -- implying that it won't take that long until they have something affordable by end-users.

    • Re:Doesn't *anyone* RTFM anymore? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Binestar (28861) on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:00AM (#12441412) Homepage
      I know that editors can't be bothered to check the accuracy of stories, but you think that at least the submitters would RTFM...

      Actually, it seems the submitter did "read the fine material", but didn't "understand the fine material". It's a reading comprehension issue that we need to resolve with this submitter.
    • I haven't seem anyone paying 6K/Month for a T-1 in a long time. That's not a far price comparison. I looked into getting one put into my house as I don't have high-speed anything where I live (until recently) and it was around $1500/mo. Just recently I was able to find a Wireless Internet provider at 3Mbps for $59/month + $5 for a fixed IP. I can have as many PCs as I like behind the router. So unless Seattle is a LOT higher priced area than Dallas I think they are going to have a tough sell at that price.

  • You won't need to pay $500 (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:56AM (#12441370)
    I happen to know the SSID will be "needle" and the WEP key is "12345." Have at it.
  • Actually, from TFA:

    Chatterley says it'll be cheaper and much faster than the 1.5-megabit, T-1 service many businesses currently use.

    "(Now), when you go above that speed, it's going to run about $6,000 a month," Chatterley said once he was back inside on firm ground. "What we're introducing today is the delivery of a 6 megabit --versus 1.5 -- data communications solution available for right around $800 a month. (That's) versus the 1.5 (megabit) solution that goes for about $500 a month."

    They are sayi

    • They're talking about the business price, not for private persons.
    • T1 isn't DSL or Cable. It's fiber. That means higher costs for laying the groundwork and higher costs for the fiber itself, which the ISP passes onto the consumer (usually a business). What you're mostly paying for, however, is a guaranteed 1.5mbps line, not one that fluctuates wildly like DSL or Cable. T1 is much better suited for business because it almost never has any downtime (which of course is greatly valued by businesses, since time = money).
      • T1 isn't fiber, it's twisted pair. Just a POTS line with the filters taken off. Part of T1 is a builtin backup line so it's two pairs in reality. DSL data rates are fixed just like T1 but frequently assymetrical. The difference is the business grade monitoring and failover and the attitude at the ISP that the service is important.
    • Which confuses me greately. Granted my DSL is only half that rate, but I pay $30/month. Cable internet access is ~1.5Mbit and most charge under $50. Maybe they've got a sticky zero key?

      But you can't actually use your ~1.5 Mbit connection to its full potential all the time, your ISP would pull the plug quickly. Your service also isn't guaranteed to be up however-many-nines of the time. Cable can be had for $20/month for 4 megabit, but that's only 4 megabit peak, many ISPs have in the small print of the ag
  • A launching platform from which fans can throw rotting vegetables at the 2005 Seattle Mariners, for example.

  • HAHAHA (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MindStalker (22827) <jlarsen AT fsu DOT edu> on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:59AM (#12441398) Journal
    Its actually 6Mb.
    They are trying to sell this as a replacement for buisness T1 thats why the prices are so high. Though I seriously doupt they can provide the reliability and the uplink speeds of a T1. Not to mention the fact that a 6Mb T1 really doesn't cost 6 grand anymore like they are trying to imply. Maybe it does in Seattle? Now if they can provide all my workers access to the internet (obivously their bandwidth would be set to max out as an aggregate to the 6Mb between all connections) from whereever they are in the city, $500 is a steal. Otherwise, no thanks.

  • 1.5 Megabits for $500 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sprotch (832431) on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:00AM (#12441427)

    Perhaps someone should tell them that a company called Free offers access up to 20 Megabits for 30/month in France.

    Oh, and it comes with free local calls and ADSL "cable" television.

    That's actually a consequence of the Europe induced forced deregulation of the telecom industry. Competition is good.
    • You're comparing apples and oranges.

      WiMax potentially would give anyone with access to it the ability to surf the web wirelessly within a 30 mile range of the antenna.

      WiMax will be WiFi on steroids. Plus it allows you to surf while traveling at relatively high speeds. Your kids could be surfing the web in the backseat of your car as you travel down the highway.

      Comparing it to ADSL or any other wired broadband internet service misses the point of the technology.
    • And it does that wirelessly?

  • Summary is a little off... (Score:4, Informative)

    by DJCacophony (832334) <{v0dka} {at} {myg0t.com}> on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:06AM (#12441474) Homepage
    Space Needle To Become WiMax Antenna

    The needle itself isn't going to be turned into one giant antenna. They're just putting an access point on top of it (FTA: Antennas and radio equipment are being installed 605 feet up at the top of the Space Needle).

  • This is a plot from a movie (Score:3, Funny)

    by StCredZero (169093) on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:07AM (#12441487)
    Namely, Tenchi Muyo in Love [imdb.com]. At the end of the movie, the Tenchi gang have to set up 5 transmitters around the city and one on Tokyo Tower in order to defeat the super criminal Kain. Maybe Seattlites should be on the lookout for green spiky haired women who can fly and materialize energy swords.
  • Someone forgot to mention the lensing effects when you have a microwave antenna put up at high elevations. The inherent characteristics of the antenna's radiation patters dictate how much coverage the setup will have at any given height. SO the best thing in this case is that someone is going to have to sit down at a terminal with a antenna creator program, build an antenna that has optimum horizontal emission patterns to operate at 600 feet.

    Hey, its either that or set the antennas at a optimum level on th

  • Not Wi-Fi replacement not $500 per month (Score:3, Interesting)

    by eggboard (315140) * on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:24AM (#12441644) Homepage
    A few errors in this item's text. First, it's not Wi-Fi replacement. This version of WiMax (technically pre-WiMax at the moment) is point-to-multipoint high-speed T-1-plus replacement.

    It's $800 per month for 6 Mbps aggregate bandwidth in either 3 up/3 down, 4 up/2 down, or 2 up/4 down configurations. It's intended for businesses that need more than T1 (about $500 per month in Seattle) and don't want to simply double their costs and increase their complxity.
  • To get reception does that mean I have to lug around a Space Needle of my own?

    Any comment taken seriously is the responsibility of the reader

  • Looks interesting (Score:3, Funny)

    by part_of_you (859291) on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:32AM (#12441718) Journal
    802.11b/g cards = $50.00

    1.5Mb service = $800.00/Month

    subscription to pornography site = $35.00/Month

    Viewing high-speed porn using a recycled NASA instrument called a "Space Needle" = Priceless

  • There's a BIG problem with projects like this! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Newer Guy (520108) on Thursday May 05 2005, @11:37AM (#12442494)
    The problem is they share the same frequencies as b and g wireless do, and because of their height, have much better signals. These projects can cause interference over a wide area, making the wireless router in your living room USELESS for anything but in room use. I already have this problem here at home with other peoples' routers on just about every channel here (I can pick up a dozen or more on my laptop). No matter where I located a single access point in my (small) house, I had big time dead spots. Finally, I threw in the towel and installed a second access point in my bedroom. I used to be able to walk dwn the block and use my laptop fine (with a single AP); now I need two AP's just to cover my 650 square foot house. All because of interference. Now Speakeasy is going to put an AP up 600-700 feet? It's gonna wipe out half the wireless in downtown Seattle! It also works the other way too - a local AP can make Speakeasy's service slower (or non-existant) as well. This is the FCC's fault - putting MILLIONS of radios on just three (or 4) non overlapping channels is NUTS. Even CB had 23 channels starting out (later expanded to 40 channels).

    • Re:$500 / month? (Score:5, Informative)

      by CharlieHedlin (102121) on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:56AM (#12441360)
      Read rather than scan the article. It says 6mbits for $800/mo instead of 1.5mbps for $500 (obviously refering to T1 lines).

      It is clear they are currently aiming this to be a cost effective upgrade from T1 lines.

      6mbps fixed wireless for $800 a month, and it isn't mobile (at this time).

      • Re:$500 / month? (Score:5, Funny)

        by DJCacophony (832334) <{v0dka} {at} {myg0t.com}> on Thursday May 05 2005, @09:57AM (#12441386) Homepage
        But if you put fins and racing stripes on the space needle, the internet will go twice as fast
      • It may be a good deal if you get dedicated bandwidth, provided that the connection is solid. And T1 isn't necessarily solid if you have incompetents doing the service, my local telco retards came out a dozen times in the last year fixing various line problems for my company's T1.

        I would get concerned about pranksters or extorters trying to jam the signal. It's illegal to do that but the FCC doesn't seem to enforce their RF rules very much.
        • Not to mention I can get faster connections for less money in Austin from a couple of companies, both of which run fiber all the way into my building.

          I was recently contacted by Time Warner Cable and they said they could do a 5x5 fiber connection for $750/mo (if I remember correctly). I went to the speakeasy site, and it turns out the 6 mbps connection is total bandwidth, and you have to decide how you want the up/down divided.

          Not bad as a replacemnt for the T1 (other than the RF jamming issues and such)
      • You get 6Mbps synchronous from Comcast cheaper than that?

        Might want to check your numbers again.

        • Re:Fuck that. (Score:5, Informative)

          by drinkypoo (153816) <martin.espinoza@gmail.com> on Thursday May 05 2005, @10:15AM (#12441554) Homepage Journal
          More important than being synchronous, in this case, is being symmetric. you can get 6Mbps down from comcast, but the most upstream I've heard of was 768kbps, and the whole package is $100/mo. (It's $65/mo in my area to get 6Mbps/384kbps.)

        • Re:Fuck that. (Score:3, Informative)

          by lewp (95638)
          It's actually, at most, 3Mbps both ways. Or you can do 4/2, 5/1, etc. Seems slightly misleading to me :(.

          http://speakeasy.net/business/wimax/pricing.php [speakeasy.net]
        • Hmm...Comcast is $100/month for 6mb down and 768kbps up. Buy two, and you have 12mb down and 1.5 up. For $200. Or am I doing the math wrong?

          This should not be interpreted as a single 12MB/1.5MB connection, but with a little load balancing and partitioning, this can work quite well.

          We have Comcast here in a building that we own. I believe that the pipe in can accommodate 8 or 12 full connections. From a technical viewpoint, is there any reason why this could not work? For $500, you could end up with a lot
    • You will be lookung forward to it for a very long time. WiMax to the home is just not going to happen. The 802.16 standard is TDMA-based, which means every connection takes a time-slice. This design does not scale to the home. The decision-point is coverage vs. density. A WiMax tower can cover a HUGE area, given that the density of actual users does not exceed ther time-slice availability. To cover a high-density area, like neighborhoods, you have to add more 'hot-spots', which drives the cost to the

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