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Dealing with Extended Warranty Vendors?
Posted by
Cliff
on Thu Feb 10, 2005 08:10 AM
from the fighting-for-what-you-paid-for dept.
from the fighting-for-what-you-paid-for dept.
edg176 asks: "I am wondering about other people's experiences with getting Extended Warranty service. I bought a laptop at Microcenter. Got the top of the line extended warranty. Laptop died. I sent it in for service, and the outside repair place, MicroMedic, claims they can't fix it, and the actual warranty administrator is separate from the repair place -- way out in Florida! My warranty says I can get a full refund of my purchase price if the warranty people can't find me an equivalent laptop. They can't, because Microcenter no longer carries the sharp ultralight laptops. Dealing with warranty administrator people, Warrantech has been a nightmare. They won't let me speak to a manager and they keep jerking me around. So far, I've gotten them to agree to give me 1200 bucks store credit, which is still 500 bucks shy of the purchase price. Is it worth fighting them for the last 500 bucks? Does anyone have success stories or tips for this situation? Should I just take the 1200 and be happy I got that much?"
"They claim that a 1200 dollar, 4.5 lb laptop is the same as my old 2.5 lb model. The dude on the phone actually claimed that low weight was not a significant feature in a laptop. Right now I have to say I would never do business with these guys again, as they have been relentlessly condescending and obstructionist."
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three words (Score:4, Informative)
Re:three words (Score:3, Informative)
Then, file suit in small claims. When they fail to show up, I believe you get an automatic judgement in your favor. If they show up, use the tape as e
Re:three words (Score:2)
FL is two-party consent (Score:2)
And, according to the link provided, if the call crosses state lines, you should contact a lawyer and assume that the more stringent (both parties consent required) requirement applies.
Now, here's the question. Assuming that the support center has the boilerplate "This call may be recorded for quality control purposes . . . " l
Re:FL is two-party consent (Score:2)
Of course, you can always tell the rep you're talking to on the phone that you are going to record the call for legal purposes... this sometimes gets results because they know ou're serious about pursuing this.
Also, don't f
Re:FL is two-party consent (Score:2)
Re:three words (Score:3, Informative)
"My Name is {your name here} and I'm calling about {put a long sentance about your problem here} and I'm recording this call for legal reasons."
They'll typically say "ok" and move on with the problem, probably not even registering what you said. In my situation (the states I was dealing in) all I had to do was notify them - I didn't need them to acknowledge it at all. Talk fast, but make sure i
Re:three words (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:three words (Score:2)
File criminal fraud charges as well. (Score:2)
Extended warranties are generally a rip-off, considering their high cost and low liklihood of having a warranty-covered failure. IOW, while a form of insurance, the premium is damn expensive.
Now, having paid that damn expensive premium, and having a covered failure, you should damn well expect gold-plated service.
Personally, I don't purchase extended warranties, but TEHO. However, it doesn't surprise me that the sleaze related to the high premiums extends to having claims settled.
Similar situation... (Score:3, Interesting)
After having the laptop for a year and a half the unit would not power on from time to time. I didn't think much of it at first until the unit would not turn on at all. I called the support hotline and explained the problem. They said it was the battery
Re:three words (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't know how it works in Florida, or inter-jurisdictionally for that matter, but in New York, you can request that the County Sheriff where the business/person resides enforce the judgement. They will go, judgement in hand, and request payment. If payment is refused, they can seize assets to cover the settlement. (I believe they have this kind of sweeping authority because we're talking about small claims.)
If your state has County Sheriffs, I would start by talking to them once you have a small claims judgement in your favor and see what they advise.
Also, unless the refund guarantee specifies "Store Credit," I wouldn't even settle for $1700 in Store Credit. That's not a refund.
Parent
Re:three words (Score:2, Funny)
Good advise (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Good advise (Score:2)
I worked at Office Max and on electronics the warrenties were a rip, but not too bad (10% for 3 years, lots of rules) our margins were in the 10-40% range. On computers the warrenty was a total waste at 20% for 3 years, with most having a 1 year warrenty (margins were 1-10 %)
But on furnature, where the margins are huge (>50%) the warrenty was 10% the cost of the product, took over th
Judge Judy (Score:2)
If a company jerks you around like that, pop into your local trading standards office and they may well take up the case for you.
Do you not have any such body in the US ?
Local newspapers are also a good source of help and may publicise the case. I know our local papers would be hot for it, warranty scams have been newsworthy here for a while.
Best Buy (Score:4, Informative)
As much as extended warranties are usually a ripoff, there are certain things I go along for just because I don't want to deal with suddenly not having them. PDA's are like that. I want a replacement immediately if I've got a problem with my PDA.
That being said, Best Buy has been very good to my friends and me with regards to warranty service. I had a friend with a similar issue to yours, and she was given a brand new laptop two years after hers kept going in for repais on the same problem. (The CD drive kept dying on a Toshiba laptop)
Re:Best Buy (Score:2, Informative)
Not only do they encourage employees to find ways out of repairing/replacing products, but you'll find that when a repair is actually warranted, it'll be executed by a monkey who does not belong 'under the hood' so to speak
Set 20% more than the cost of their plans aside in an interest bearing account everytime you buy something like this. You'll come out ahead in the long run.
Re:Best Buy (Score:2)
she sent it in to them in late Dec, still hasn't gotten it back yet.
She calls but they just jerk her around. My next advice is BBB...
grump
Re:Best Buy (Score:2)
Re:Best Buy (Score:3, Interesting)
The Ohio AG is (was?) investigating Best Buy for a variety of reasons, among them failure to honor warranties, IIRC.
I will never purchase anything from BestBuy anymore. I bought a car CD player there a few years ago, and when it broke, I had to take it out of the car and have it sent in. Not only was the original problem not fixed, but the "fix" had created an entirely new an unrelated problem with the unit. After about
Do it the BOFH way (Score:4, Funny)
If you have free time: the other way is just to directly call their headoffice and see how high you can get, make sure you get a face to face meeting with the highest guy you can get, then waste an hour or two of his time. Which should be the equivelent of the amount they deducted and explain at the end of the meeting that you purpousfully wasted their time to earn back the money deducted by buying faulty equipment, that'll piss them off.
Also apply to jobs at the firm and just use the interview to complain about the service you got at the store and how you think they really need you to make it less crappy.
And if all else fails, get a soapbox and stand outside the store, on a public pavement and explain to passing customers how they treated you, do it on their bussiest day.
You can get a refund, you'll probably get something even better if you explain that your campaining cost money and loss of earnings. (I think that may be blackmail or racketing or something...)
Just so you know I accept no liability if you do anything mentioned above. IANAL, AFAIK and GFDL.
Time to call the CEO - or e-mail him! (Score:5, Funny)
2200 Hwy. 121, Ste. 100
Bedford, TX 76021
Phone: 817-354-0095
Fax: 817-436-6151
Toll Free: 800-544-9510
CEO: Joel San Antonio
President of the Consumer Product Services arm: Stephen R. Williams
The chairman of the board and President is Lawrence Richenstein of Peak Ventures in Farmingdale, NY
Any slashdotter worth their salt can socially engineer or otherwise hack their way to an email address for these folks. When you get one, be polite and direct. Lay out the situation and a reasonable solution and show regret (not frustration, not rage) that their company didn't perform to the standards that you're *sure* they expect.
You'll likely get a very fast and very satisfactory resolution to your issue.
Lesson (Score:5, Informative)
When I worked at a CompUSA in college several years ago, Warrantech warranties were sold at a 75% margin, which translates into a major ripoff.
If you feel that you need an extended warranty, buy one directly from the manufacturer. I don't know about Sharp, but Toshiba and IBM offer comprehensive service plans that include 24hr turnaround service for about half of what a third party warranty costs.
Absolutely (Score:2)
So ask yourself, if an extended warranty makes them money, how does it do so, and what does that mean to you? They make money because the repair work they do, or the replacement they buy, plus the overhead of administering the warranty and work, is less than what you paid for the
Re:Absolutely (Score:2)
Now I would guess that you have home owners insurance if you own a home. I would also guess that you have automobile insurance on your car. So what is wrong with breakage insurance on your laptaop? The issue is that companies that sell those warranties don't fall under in
Try dealing with Microcenter (Score:2)
Dealing with companies who try to screw you (Score:5, Interesting)
Dig out all paperwork--in this case the original warranty and receipt for the laptop. Also photocopy everything you mail off. If the warranty company answers emails and faxes, use these methods for rapid communication with some amount of papertrail. If not, call them. But log all phone calls & followup with letters. Also cc microcenter on everything. Unhappy customers might mean they lose their contract with microcenter, which they don't want! Hopefully you've done this, as it seems like you're not getting anywhere with them.
Because of this, you should start contacting consumer advocates. This is typically free, aside from postage & quite effective. File complaints against both Microcenter and the warranty company. File complaints with the BBB and the FTC. You should use the local BBB of both companies. Also use a service such as planetfeedback.com to send letters to reps at both companies who might actually have the power and the willingness to fix this for you. These are often addressed to the CEO & if not, you can always write to the CEO yourself. Also contact the attorney general of the state these companies are headquartered in. If applicable, also the US Postal Inspector. Sometimes states also have a Department of Consumer Affairs.
You can reuse your complaint letters for most of these. In the first paragrah, summarize your complaint & what resolution you want. In subsequent paragraphs, give a detailed history with names & dates. In the final paragraph, say again what it is you want. Try to make this about a page. Say that you have supporting paperwork & perhaps include the original warranty, as that seems to be the most relevant piece. But don't flood anyone with papers. Also try to be civil, but firm.
Submit these on the same day & wait about two weeks. You should start to see results in your favor.
I have almost always had success at this point with complaints on behalf of myself, my family, or friends. If not, you do have more options. You can contact the media if you are savvy or even setup your own microcentersucks.com website. This is typically cheap & these businesses do not want to lose business because of a squeaky wheel. This slashdot post is actually a decent start. If you have a friend who is a lawyer, have him send additional correspondance on his letterhead.
If none of this works, go to small claims court. This will cost a filing fee, but you will most likely win & be awarded the money they owe you plus the filing fee you paid. Many companies won't fight a small claim. Those that do in cases like these lose.
Perhaps the most important thing that all of these do is that they start or continue a trail of complaints about shady companies. Microcenter may choose to use a less shady warranty administrator or customers who see complaints to both Microcenter and the warranty administrator will think twice before getting the extended warranty. If you don't do it for the $500, do it for the rest of us!
Re:Dealing with companies who try to screw you (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Dealing with companies who try to screw you (Score:2)
It is worth the time to submit a complaint--the complaint will at least go into a file
Re:Dealing with companies who try to screw you (Score:3, Informative)
This a great option, as the filing fee can usually be $30 or less but there are two things you should be aware of before you try this:
Most extended warranty contracts have an arbitration clause. That means you gave up your right to sue and instead will have the claim decided by an arbitration service that the company selected and pays.
Once you win in small claims court the initial burden of collection is on you. If you can't extract your money from the def
Re:Dealing with companies who try to screw you (Score:3, Informative)
When you win, many courts also order interest start accruing on what is owed you. Chicago has a 9% APY. If the company isn't going to go bankrupt (and, in this case, the seller is a very large company), they will usually pay you off immediately, lest they suffer these penalties. Collecting from businesses isn't bad, but you are right that it can get tricky. While you can
Extended Service Warranties (Score:2)
But different retail stores within the same company will interpret the warranty policy differently so you might want to get a feel for that before you buy. The phone center of a company will always have the strictest interpretation because they have no vested interest in making you happy and upper management watches them very closely. So only use a 1-800 number when you absolutely have to and expect to have y
One word: lawyer (Score:2)
That's the thing about having a lawyer. You don't even have to use them to scare the other guy into honoring their agreement; simply having one is usually enough to make them realize you mean business.
Credit Card Extended warrenty experience (Score:3, Interesting)
Economic Lesson (Score:4, Informative)
Re: insurance
For things like car collision insurance, product warranties, etc., if it is within your means it is always less expensive to self-insure for loss and damages.
I read once where those lucrative extended warranties that get hawked at consumer electronics stores, the ones that bring in great commission to the sales person, to the store and to the insurer, typically have to pay out about US$1 in claim settlements for every US$11 that is collected. I'm not even sure if the salesperson commission or store commission is included in that figure. Either way, it should tell you something about the risks and probabilities that are involved.
Exhibit A: about 3 years ago my S.O. wanted to pay $4/month for insurance on our cell phone and when she brought it in to be replaced about 2 years later because the antenna had predictably gotten bent, wouldn't stay extended, etc. (insert joke) she was informed that that particular malady was not covered. So we'd paid about $100 for peace of mind that was a delusion.
Exhibit B: When I recently purchased an expensive LCD flat screen TV and I reluctantly agreed to look into the extended warranty because of the infamous "dead pixel" issue, I asked the store for a clear statement of exactly what the extended warranty covered since I'd heard of disreputable places that would exempt dead pixels in the outer third of the screen from coverage, up to 10-12 pixels, etc. Despite their enthusiasm for selling the extended warranty, they never did get me a copy of the policy, we didn't get the extended warranty, saved $1000, and been happy as clams with the TV.
AT HIGH TIDE (OT) (Score:3, Informative)
As happy as clams AT HIGH TIDE is the proper saying. Why do so many people think clams are happy all the time? It is when the tide comes in and keeps the predators from digging them up that they are happy.
That's even assuming clams can be happy, but I'll leave that for some other pedantic.
Re:Economic Lesson (Score:2)
Re:Economic Lesson (Score:2)
AppleCare will be worth it on my PowerBook
I couldnt' say for sure in this particular case, but if it were me I'd ask other PowerBook owners about their troubles to get an idea of the reliability, how often the logic board dies, etc.
Estimate the risk (let's say for the sake of argument that the probability is 0.05 it will go out between year 3 to year 7 which is when you'll probably buy a new G6 laptop and sell your current PowerBook on eBay) and that the cost of replacing the logic board if you had the
Re:Economic Lesson (Score:2)
But that doesn't follow, which was half the point of my original post.
Apple's costs are not going to be the same as your costs. If Apple only pays 1/3rd as much for parts as you do (by virtue of them buying them in 100,000-unit lots, etc.), then they can make money on their warranty service while still being cheaper than self-insuring. I don't know if they do, but it's possible.
Re:Economic Lesson (Score:2)
Apparently, many home or renter's insurance policies will allow you to add insurance for computer equipment at a very low cost.
But I think the lessons from the posts on this story are that it is the 3rd party warranty vendors that are the problem. They just don't serve you very well.
Buying an extended warranty from the manufacturer, while relatively expensive, is usually not worth it for desktop systems, which are easy to service a
Re:Economic Lesson (Score:2)
Re:Economic Lesson (Score:2)
Two words: Attorney General (Score:2, Informative)
You don't mention if you're in the US, but most US cities have an Attorney General that you can speak with that will answer most of your questions regarding transactions like this. If nothing else your attorney general will be able to point you in the right direction of who to contact about this.
Look them up under your local government yellow pages. There might also be a consumer advocate group that you might want to speak with.
If the contract states specific resolutions and they are not being met then it
Look at it for what it really is (Score:2)
Now, given that, it's up to them to decide if 2 pounds of weight is enough of a differance to warrant upgrading your PC. I've personally gone through the whole "fight for all you can on warranty" thing but you can't expect to get 100% of the features in a 100% match. Some fe
Local TV (Score:2)
Re:Letter [OT, but funny] (Score:2)
"something like in Schindler's List."
I had two responses to that:
1) Oooh, that's awful close to a Godwin's Law violation. Passed, but barely.
2) Mr. Burns: Listen, Spielbergo. Schindler and I are like peas in a pod! We're both factory owners. We both made shells for the Nazis, but mine worked, damn it! Now, go out there and win me that festival
Re:Better Business Bureau (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd threaten submitting a claim to the Better Business Bureau http://www.bbb.org/
Tee Hee.
The BBB isn't going to be at all useful, especially if they aren't a member.
The BBB is just a boys club to make people beleive that they can get fair redress from the big bad companies.
The best you can do is to probably ask for the operator's name, and ask them to spell that please, and ask to speak to their legal department.
You may also want to ask them if it is better for the subpoena to be sent to their home or their work. You would be suprised how much more flexible phone drones will be if you make them think that their name will end up on a lawsuit.
Parent
Re:Better Business Bureau (Score:2)
I will say that the grandparent's suggestion to make this a threat is far too conservative. Poster has already been screwed
Re:Now you know (Score:2)
There are exceptions. If you like to run high volumes through your speakers it might be a good idea to get this for speakers. If you drop your laptop often (and who doesn't?) it might be a good idea.
However the above is only true if the company will pay out when there is a problem. Good luck finding one of them. In theory though they can be a good idea.