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The Sub-$100 Laptop?
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:41 AM
from the no-extras-like-disk-drives-and-batteries dept.
from the no-extras-like-disk-drives-and-batteries dept.
Vollernurd writes "The BBC is carrying this article detailing Nick Negroponte's plans to deveop and distribute a sub-$100 notebook computer. It would be very basic and stripped down and be used in developing countries as a way of distributing school books and such. Interesting to see how they will cut costs. Yes, it does run Linux." You can read another slashdot story about this machine when it was discussed on Red Herring awhile ago.
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Gates Mocks MIT's $100 Laptop 816 comments
QuietLagoon writes 'Reuters is reporting that Bill Gates is making fun of the one laptop per child initiative to revolutionize how the world's children are educated. 'The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk ... and with a tiny little screen,' Gates said at the Microsoft Government Leaders Forum in suburban Washington. 'Hardware is a small part of the cost' of providing computing capabilities, he said, adding that the big costs come from network connectivity, applications and support. 'If you are going to go have people share the computer, get a broadband connection and have somebody there who can help support the user, geez, get a decent computer where you can actually read the text and you're not sitting there cranking the thing while you're trying to type,' Gates said.'
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Not just developing countries (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not just developing countries (Score:5, Insightful)
And I really like this guy's motivation for this. I think it just goes to show that technological gurus aren't money grubbers by nature.
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not just developing countries (Score:5, Funny)
Just ask for your cash discount.
You can always find *someone* to sell you a brand new notebook for $150-$200. And, yes, they're making a nice profit ($150-$200).
Lots of your inner cities already have such discount retail programs.
The machines come with Windows pre-installed. Most of them even come with user data pre-installed.
They'll even make same-day delivery (some will even let you order the particular make/model you want).
Ain't capitalism grand. [tt]
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? If they sold well, you increase the volume produced, and the cost per unit decreases.
While you would certainly want to regulate how many are sold in what market, assuming you design it once, and design it right, mass production is your friend.
One item I think that should be introduced for portable, that would REALLY help the developing world, is repairability. There is no earthly reason why you can't design a laptop with an interchangable screen. And how about a standard battery connection system and package?
These are all things that would be impossible to market to the developed world, but would be essential to the developing world. They simply don't buy into the idea that you throw something that costs many times their yearly wages away after 2 years.
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:4, Insightful)
The tricky part is the hard drives. They really want to see +/- 12V. I'm pretty sure, and please, someone correct me, that you could actually provide that by providing the +12V leg of the system with the straight power, and simply reversing the polarity of power coming in for the -12V. That is assuming that you can't find a hard drive that operates at 5V. I'm too lazy to research it.
Couple that with a diode to prevent the system from being damaged by reversed wires, and a big Cap to handle power dips and surges and you will have a Joe-proof computer.
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, hard drives want to see +12, +5, and ground. All of which can be supplied by a 12V supply. However, other components in the system may want to see -12,-5, G, +5, +12. You cannot simply reverse the leads on such a device. The "ground" or "(-)" floats above or below the actual ground and is a reference point for the other voltages. You can look at it as a +24 volt supply that has been referenced with +12V being the "ground" with other voltages above or below this reference. The -12,+12 point of view is equally valid as long as you are consistent. The point is that most computers expect a spread of levels that span 24 volts.
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:3, Insightful)
Selling some units in the West would be a good way to recoup some of the initial investment {tooling costs &c.}; though it would not be at all wise to rely on this as a permanent subsidy, because (1) the novelty value will wear off eventually, and (2) the ultimate aim must surely be for the third world not to have to rely on
Re:Not just developing countries (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:3, Insightful)
This is currently one of the latin american countries with the highest proportion of poor people.
But there are many levels of poverty.
There are persons who live in absolute misery (they cannot even afford food).
There are poor who have very low paying jobs and probably cannot buy a 100$ computer. They can barely afford food.
There are poor who can afford food, but cannot have much luxury. They ussually have TV, stereo, and live in very humble homes. They cannot afford cars
Re:Not just developing countries (Score:5, Informative)
The point is that this technology is needed there; at the current price point, it's completely out of reach of the consumer. Offering these laptops at a reasonable price means that finally those who need these laptops can purchase them.
I sincerely doubt that these laptops will be used primarily for recreational purposes, so someone who really does need them might willingly take out a loan in order to purchase one.
NGOs, for one, will certainly be snapping these up. These notebooks will make their work so much easier.
Perhaps it might be useful to offer laptops to lower income westerners (I'm thinking particularly of urban and rural poor), but lower middle class westerners can suck it up and use a credit card if they really want a laptop. Even Apple has laptops starting for less than $1000.
The "intermittent power access" is why they're using laptops rather than desktops, which, if you think about it, would be much cheaper anyway. Laptops need less power overall, and you can plug them in during the 2-3 hours of scheduled "uptime" on the local grid. For clinics running off of generators, desktops, which would put a huge drain on the electricity, were probably just not possible (or, if they were, it might be one desktop computer for a dozen or more people). With laptops, they can now use several.
So there are a lot of benefits to offering these inexpensive laptops. While this is certainly a commercial offering and not a "donation" to developing countries, it is nevertheless a very beneficial thing being done. Although technology is not the "answer to the problem", it can be an invaluable tool for the real solutions. I believe that the available of inexpensive laptops just might transform developing countries as much as the introduction of wireless phones has.
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Re:Not just developing countries (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not just developing countries (Score:3, Informative)
new saying (Score:3, Funny)
They have them on eBay (Score:3, Interesting)
Toshiba K6-2 350MHZ, 48MB RAM, 3.6GB HD, 12.1 TFT screen. Nice shape and it runs Damn Small Linux quite well. I actually loaded Slackware 9 on it for kicks and it ran pretty well using Fluxbox.
Error in TFA? (Score:3, Insightful)
"The second trick is to get rid of the fat , if you can skinny it down you can gain speed and the ability to use smaller processors and slower memory."
Um, why is using slower memory a GOOD thing? Esp. if these people are going to be using it like a textbook, it's going to be much more memory intensive than CPU intensive......
Re:Error in TFA? (Score:3, Informative)
Because it's cheaper? Cheaper is better when you're trying to reach a certain price-point.
Re:Error in TFA? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have ever worked in a factory or with a piece of remote instrumentation, cooling fans are the bane of your existance. They die quietly, and next thing you know you have random crashes, or worse, damaged components. And they have a great way of sucking dust, dirt, and other undesirables into the inner workings of the machine.
Plus, you save on the cost of the fan, the cost of the connector for the fan, the cost of the holes in the PCB to run the pins to supply the fan, and can chop that much more power off the requirements for the supply. You also have one less part that needs to be assembled onto the final product.
All of that can add up to a few hundred thousand dollars of savings over a production run of a few million computers.
And for the record, a textbook program is NOT all that CPU intensive. There is not rule that says you can't scale the format to the capabilities of the machine.
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Re:Error in TFA? (Score:3, Funny)
Reading text is not intensive at all. If it uses flash ram or battery backed up ram it will be many times faster than a hard drive.
I hope they put a nic on it. For a developing country it could really be a replacement for the phone. Heck it would almost make sense to go straight for VoIP and broadband from the start with these and skip phone lines. Small villages would only
Only selling them to governments (Score:5, Funny)
So it will be a day or two's delay until you can grab one off eBay.
cellphone.. (Score:3, Interesting)
bam - sub 100$ computer.
Re:cellphone.. (Score:3, Insightful)
the cell phone i just got for free with my two year cingular service agreement costs almost $250 to buy without a service agreement, if you can at all.
Profit ! (Score:3, Funny)
1. Distribute cheap Linux-based laptops to 2 billion indigent Asians
2. Extort $699 Linux license fee from each user
3. Profit!
I don't think they need these in Africa (Score:5, Funny)
Meanwhile, on eBay (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Meanwhile, on eBay (Score:3, Insightful)
No, you can't. You can get a PowerBook for $50. You can not get millions of PowerBooks for $50, for two reasons, each sufficient on their own: One, there aren't that many on the market, the supply is finite and you can not "create" new used products at any useful rate, and two, when you raise the demand, you'll raise the price and they won't be $50 anymore. Economics 101.
Besides, if you're going to create $
Loaded with Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg? (Score:3, Interesting)
(I remember how intriguing it was when Steve Jobs premiered the NeXT with the American Heritage dictionary and the complete works of Shakespeare as standard equipment...)
Re:Loaded with Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg? (Score:3, Interesting)
Come on, how many American teenagers do you know that have read H.G. Wells or Thomas Hardy... well, at least of their own free will.
As for the Wikipedia, it suffers from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy syndrome. A whole lot of contributers. Editors? You mean like Notepad?
computers for the Masses not the classes (Score:4, Informative)
You could...and they did build computers that were at the sweet spot of $200 bucks. People forget that Commodore sold MILLIONS of Vic-20's and C-64's
With High def capable TV's being sold (even without an HDTV tuner) and HDMI and DVI connectors on them it seems that you could do this again. Make a $200 (or less) computer with a keyboard and mouse (or maybee track pad) attached or built into it and connect it via HDMI to to a high def capable tv (HDMI also includes sound).
The manufacturer that comes out with a device like this could sell A LOT of these devices!
As an IT Director in education (Score:5, Interesting)
Diamond Age? (Score:4, Interesting)
This will happen no matter what. (Score:3, Insightful)
I think a bigger challenge than getting cheap screens is making the machines rugged enough. Kids + Third World living conditions = MDL. (many dead laptops).
The Sub-$100 notebook (Score:3, Funny)
Dateline 2006, after sub-$100 laptops deployed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Dateline 2006, after sub-$100 laptops deployed (Score:4, Funny)
"United Nations officials report a mysterious 50,000 percent increase in Ethiopian pr0n online...
The great thing about Ethiopian Pt0n is that it compresses realy well.
(ducks)
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Point-Counterpoint (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1759073,00. as p?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000605
The article:
"Power Politics Overshadow $100 PC Concept
February 2, 2005
By Guy Kewney
DAVOS, Switzerland--Nicholas Negroponte, wandering around this city, was trying to get people excited about the idea of a very small, very cheap PC, costing $100. A favor, if you like, for the poor countries at the World Economic Forum, from the rich.
Nothing wrong with the idea, as another delegate to the WEF (World Economic Forum) pointed out last week.
But Wenchi Chen, founder and president of VIA Technologies, knows a bit more about small, cheap PCs, perhaps, than the MIT Media lab chief, and he pinpointed the flaw in Negroponte's pitch quickly enough. It's power.
I've been amazed at how few people in the First World really understand how important it is that PCs don't chew up wattage like an elephant munching hay. We've gotten so used to having cheap energy that we honestly don't realize we are paying to charge our mobile phones.
You can cure yourself of this blindness simply enough. Check out any online store for something such as the Maxxima hand generator, and then try it. Just try generating enough charge in your cell phone for a five-minute conversation. It really isn't funny; it's hard work for little result. And so now, try to imagine generating the power to run a 75W personal computer.
Chen's point at the WEF was simple: All of the things we are hoping to harness the personal computer to depend on power. "Even if we built a nuclear power station a day for the next few years, we wouldn't have enough to drive all the PCs we're hoping to build," he warned.
Naturally, VIA has an axe to grind: It has focused its technology, as have Transmeta and ARM, on the power budget. But the days of cheap energy can't be taken for granted anymore, and within a decade, it may be that even we in the West will have to share the Third World's concern with power budgets.
Whether we can have cheap energy or not, the remote, rural communities of Africa and China don't have the sort of revenue that would let them put a computer such as the Media Center in every home. And I think that's where Negroponte's vision exposes its Achilles heel: He's said the minimum order for his $100 PC would be a million.
Next Page: Better to buy a cell phone?
As Peter Rojas pointed out sardonically enough, most poor villagers would rather buy a cell phone.
And indeed, why not? Cell phones are usually subsidized by the network operators for the text and call traffic revenue they generate. Increasingly, they have considerable local processing power--and, with the built-in camera, substantial local news-gathering ability, too. And the networks are now offering offline storage for trivial amounts.
Wenchi Chen is best known, in my part of the forest, for his mini-ITX range of motherboards which, amazingly, are forming a growing thicket of wireless mesh boxes providing rural broadband links to people who don't have ADSL or cable, and can't afford satellite. But the interesting thing for me about the low-power platform isn't just the wireless application.
Read more here about wireless mesh networking.
Rather, it's the discovery that more and more people are using these things as servers. And again, why not? It may take two or three low-power PCs to match the performance of a top-range Xeon, but the power budget is a tiny fraction.
And in a co-location center, they charge you for your heat output. And so smart guys are buying a half-dozen mini-ITX boxes and sticking them in their co-lo corner--and that's the cue for the Third World.
One machine per home may be a rich boy's dream. One machine per village, however, with mobile-phone peripheral access, is another matter. You can work out a power
Re:Point-Counterpoint (Score:3, Insightful)
This system is designed for the chunks of the world that already have electricity and water and phones (at least in civic structures), but where $1200 is a fortune, and where a unit costing $100 that could replace 10+ textbooks costing $10, while providing some added functions, is economically advantageous.
Linux on CoCo3 (Score:3)
Re:Quality? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm. (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that if they use ARM or maybe even Geode x86 CPUs, they can get it under $100. $20 display, $10-20 CPU, $10-20 RAM, $10-20 flash memory (or HDD), which leaves $20-50 for the case, keyboard, and mouse.
Re:More pressing needs (Score:5, Insightful)
People in 3rd world countries have 'basic' needs, but they also realize that there are some tools worth having. If a computer is going to cost you 5 years of income, then it's not an issue. But if you can get one relatively cheap, access to information can be extremely valuable.
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Re:More pressing needs (Score:3, Informative)
Re: Display? (Score:3, Funny)
Sure, picture tube built in. Very portable, only 8 kilograms, and a couple of cubic feet in size. That makes sense.
Re:Run's Linux? (Score:3, Funny)
-b
Re:Laptops..Hmmmm Tasty (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes... far better to leave them in a third world existence without any chance to accelerate their technology. We certainly don'
Re:Laptops..Hmmmm Tasty (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Laptops..Hmmmm Tasty (Score:4, Interesting)
What, you've been to a third world country where people go hungry? Most are agrarian economies, so food is quite easy to come by (and yes, I usually get better food in my "underdeveloped" country than here in the great USA. I come from Paraguay.).
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Re:Laptops..Hmmmm Tasty (Score:3, Interesting)
Also: the Encyclopedia Britannica costs 200$. A Negroponte computer for 100$ + Internet connection (~ 800 Rs/m
Re:Why only for 'developing' countries? (Score:4, Insightful)
And the point here is that not only would it be useful to make available in sub-Saharan Africa or rural India, but to inner-city youth of Liverpool or Los Angeles.
As well, the point here is that you can make something like this available as a cheap commodity computer (avoid the feature bloat... this is to make a very cheap mass-produced computer), it will drive the price down even more simply due to economies of scale. Electronic components are particularly sensitive to volumes of production.
In addition to simply having these computers around at the check-out stands of your local Wal-Mart, there will be a community of developers and tinkerers that will be using the equipment...many of which could translate and port some of the tools and concepts from more expensive equipment to a very cheap platform like this.
There have been some amazing things done with some of the old 8-bit platforms, like the Comodore 64 and the Apple ][, including TCP/IP stacks and web browsers that would have been unheard of when they were originally put together.
An example of a projct made for "an initiative only making sense in desparate circumstances" that has practical application in 1st World countries, The Freeplay Wind-up Radio [ccrane.com] is one of the most innovative projects to come up. This is a device that doesn't need an external power source, is very rugged, and works in areas of the world like Rwanda or Congo. It is also sold in the USA and Canada to people who want to keep an emergency radio available during a disaster, so you don't have to constantly check and see if the batteries are working.
How come a laptop computer couldn't be any different?
Or to paraphrase your Bill Maher quote a little differently, why not go from 10 to 11 when we can also help a country go from 0 to 1? It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.
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