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The Mystery of Cell Processors
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Nov 29, 2004 08:01 AM
from the nothing-to-do-wit-DBZ? dept.
from the nothing-to-do-wit-DBZ? dept.
LucidBeast writes "Consumer appliances requiring more computing power Sony, IBM and Toshiba started 2001 developing "Cell"-processor that comprises of multiple processor cores and should give performance ten times of conventional processors. Now the CNN Money reports that details of the processor will be released Feb. 6-10 at the International Solid State Circuits Conference in San Francisco. Also reported by EE Times. Rumors also tell that Sonys PS3 development platform has already been shipped to some developers equipped with the cell processor."
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Article text (Score:4, Informative)
Sony, IBM, Toshiba disclose details of new processor that will run next-generation electronics.
November 29, 2004: 6:13 AM EST
TOKYO (Reuters) - IBM, Sony Corp. and Toshiba Corp. on Monday unveiled some key details on the powerful new "Cell" processor the three are jointly producing to run next-generation computers, game consoles and TVs.
Cloaked in secrecy and the object of much speculation since the three conglomerates announced the project in 2001, Cell will be 10 times more powerful than conventional chips and able to shepherd large chunks of data over broadband networks.
In a joint release, the three firms gave a glimpse of their respective plans for Cell-powered products, but were mum on technical details, which will be revealed Feb. 6-10 at the International Solid State Circuits Conference in San Francisco.
IBM (Research), Sony (Research) and Toshiba are investing billions of dollars to develop and prepare for mass production of Cell, which is a multicore semiconductor composed of several processors that work together to handle multiple tasks at the same time.
"In the future, all forms of digital content will be converged and fused onto the broadband network," Ken Kutaragi, executive deputy president and COO of Sony, said in the release. "Current PC architecture is nearing its limits."
IBM said it would start pilot production of the microprocessor at its plant in East Fishkill, N.Y., in the first half of 2005. It will use advanced 300 millimeter silicon wafers, which yield more chips per wafer than the 200 mm kind.
It also announced plans to first use the chip in a workstation it is developing with Sony, targeting the digital content and entertainment industries.
Sony said it would launch home servers and high-definition televisions powered by Cell in 2006, and reiterated plans to use the microchip to power the next-generation PlayStation game console, a working version of which will be unveiled in May.
Toshiba said it planned to launch a high-definition TV using Cell in 2006. Top of page
End Result May Disappoint (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:End Result May Disappoint (Score:4, Insightful)
But yes, we will likely be underimpressed with the PS3 when it comes out. But all of the "non geeks" out there who never heard the five versions of the inflated specs that we were promised will still love the machine for what it is, a good game console.
So it won't ever have the most teraflops on the worlds' supercomputer list...who cares?
Parent
Re:End Result May Disappoint (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankly I like the idea of delivering power comparable to a high-end PC in a less expensive console. Those that want the most possible power will pay the price for the PC anyway so they can keep it updated. The console buyer wants simplicity and low price. As a reformed geek myself I never want to touch the guts of a computer again. My two favorite electronic devices are my iMac and iPod. When I buy another game console I will be much more concerned with the quality of the games and the ease of use than the raw specs. I'd certainly like to see what all this power could deliver, but I'd rather it be US$199 than "incredible."
Parent
Re:End Result May Disappoint (Score:5, Funny)
You're in the wrong place.
Parent
Re:Article text (Score:3, Funny)
To think we almost slashdotted CNN!
Re:Article text (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Article text (Score:5, Funny)
And all restaurants will be Taco Bell...
Parent
Re:Article text (Score:3, Insightful)
Please Help! (Score:5, Funny)
What in the hell does that sentence mean? I can handle a couple of spelling or grammatical problems, but seriously! What the fuck does that mean? Are 3 companies working together to create this Cell processor, or are there three different Cell processors...
Re:Please Help! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Please Help! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Please Help! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Please Help! (Score:5, Insightful)
We can. The problem arises in that other people cannot (or rather, do not, since most adults can form grammatically correct sentences if you force them to).
Another, humorous, response to the parent post nicely illustrates the problem... The only way to parse it such that it remains (almost) grammatically correct runs along the lines of "three consumer appliances named Sony, IBM and Toshiba that are inneed of more computing power".
Now, you can say that any human reader would get the correct meaning. And in this situation, I'll grant that as most likely true. But if people use sloppy grammar in "obvious" sentences, they most likely will carry that into more subtle sentences as well.
So when a geek chides someone for misuse of a natural language, insisting on an exactness bordering on formal logic - They/We do so because it improves comprehension.
A non-geek might feel comfortable trying to divine a sloppy author's intended meaning. But we realize the consequences... Do that in a programming language, and at best you'll get buggy code. Do that in real life, and you get ambiguities such as (no political commentary intended) whether or not Bush said/implied a link exists between Saddam and Osama.
Parent
Re:Please Help! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Please Help! (Score:3, Informative)
Well.. (Score:5, Funny)
About 10 processor cores, right?
They should have enough power to divide by zero by now, right? or is that still to "difficult"
Divide by zero (Score:4, Funny)
TOO/0 = TO
Parent
DBZ (Score:3, Funny)
Twenty times, after absorbing an android or two.
-Stephen
What they didn't mention (Score:4, Interesting)
it gives a 10 times performance gain over a normal processor, from the year 2001 of course, which will be something like a 1.3 GHz P4 or a 800 MHz Celeron, both introduced in january 2001
Re:What they didn't mention (Score:3, Funny)
What language do they use? (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the better ways is to model out the program in CSP (or a variant thereof) and then write in a specially designed language like Occam (developed for the original transputer, but ported now to x86). These give you code that cannot deadlock or livelock or suffer from resource starvation without needing any of the complex and buggy hacks you see in things like the Linux kernel. And the Linux kernel only has to deal with a few processors... scalling to a few thousand processors in C would require a programmer of insane genius or the implimentation of effectivly a new language on top of C to handle the problems caused.
So, what language do developers use to target this? Is it something elegant designed for the problem at hand?
Small problem (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, one could argue that the Linux folks have more than one insane genius among them...
Parent
Re:What language do they use? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Playstation3 vs. XBox2 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Playstation3 vs. XBox2 (Score:5, Insightful)
PS3: POWER-based CPU made by IBM.
Looks like a good time to own IBM stock...
Parent
Re:Playstation3 vs. XBox2 (Score:3, Interesting)
The latter could be of great interest to Apple Computer because it means the potential for substantial increases in the performance of future Macintosh models.
A bit more on PS3 (Score:5, Informative)
Zimmons talks the details [pcvsconsole.com].
Will be interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
So I'm exicited looks like the tech in just around the corner and so are the multi-core platforms (like XBOX2 and PS3).... yay!
Cell in TV ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Cell in TV ? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Cell in TV ? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Cell in TV ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Decoding a 19 Mbps MPEG-2 program stream with multiple SDTV subchannels, surround sound, etc. ???
Maybe the channels will change faster too.
"Cell Processor Unveiled" form physOrg (Score:3, Informative)
The companies expect that a one rack Cell processor-based workstation will reach a performance of 16 teraflops or trillions of floating point calculations per second.
Cell Processor Unveiled [physorg.com]
IBM, Sony Corporation, and Toshiba Corporation today unveiled for the first time some of the key concepts of the highly-anticipated advanced microprocessor, code-named Cell, they are jointly developing for next-generation computing applications, as well as digital consumer electronics.
Specifically, the companies confirmed that Cell is a multicore chip comprising a 64-bit Power processor core and multiple synergistic processor cores capable of massive floating point processing. Cell is optimized for compute-intensive workloads and broadband rich media applications, including computer entertainment, movies and other forms of digital content.
Other highlights of the Cell processor design include: -- Multi-thread, multicore architecture. -- Supports multiple operating systems at the same time. -- Substantial bus bandwidth to/from main memory, as well as companion chips. -- Flexible on-chip I/O (input/output) interface. -- Real-time resource management system for real-time applications. -- On-chip hardware in support of security system for intellectual property protection. -- Implemented in 90 nanometer (nm) silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology. Additionally, Cell uses custom circuit design to increase overall performance, while supporting precise processor clock control to enable power savings.
IBM, Sony Group and Toshiba will disclose more details about Cell in four technical papers scheduled for presentation at the International Solid State Circuits Conference. "Less than four years ago, we embarked on an ambitious collaborative effort with Sony Group and Toshiba to create a highly-integrated microprocessor designed to overcome imminent transistor scaling, power and performance limitations in conventional technologies," said Dr. John E. Kelly III, senior vice president, IBM. "Today, we're revealing just a sampling of what we believe makes the innovative Cell processor a premiere open platform for next-generation computing and entertainment products." "Massive and rich content, like multi-channel HD broadcasting programs as well as mega-pixel digital still/movie images captured by high-resolution CCD/CMOS imagers, require huge amount of media processing in real-time. In the future, all forms of digital content will be converged and fused onto the broadband network, and will start to explode," said Ken Kutaragi, executive deputy president and COO, Sony Corporation, and president and Group CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. "To access and/or browse sea of content freely in real-time, more sophisticated GUI within the 3D world will become the 'key' in the future. Current PC architecture is nearing its limits, in both processing power and bus bandwidth, for handling such rich applications." "The progressive breakdown of barriers between personal computers and digital consumer electronics requires dramatic enhancements in the capabilities and performance of consumer electronics. The Cell processor meets these requirements with a multi-processor architecture/design and a structure able to support high-level media processing. Development of this unsurpassed, high-performance processor is well under way, carried forward by dedicated teamwork and state-of-the-art expertise from Toshiba, Sony Group and IBM," said Mr. Masashi Muromachi, Corporate Vice President of Toshiba Corporation and President & CEO of Toshiba's Semiconductor Company. "Today's announcement shows the substantial progress that has been made in this joint program. Cell will substantially enhance the performance of broadband-empowered consumer applications, raise the user-friendliness of services realized through these applications, and facilitate the use of information-rich media and comm
DRM For the Masses (Score:5, Interesting)
Considering the companies involved, and the devices that they want to put the chip in, I'm really tempted to say that the Cell is nothing more than the biggest effort we've ever seen to get a DRM (trusted computing) CPU and associated parts on to the market. Obviously, this scares the bejesus out of me, since it would mean that these Cell devices would effectively be mod-proof; systems like Xbox Live already keep cheaters away, so this seems to be an attempt to stop modding alltogether. So, I have to ask: how is this going to benefit me, the consumer? If Live already gets rid of possible cheaters, how does stopping me from modding my box altogether help me?
If these assumptions are right, I don't like where this is going.
Parent
Why does a game console need such a monster CPU? (Score:4, Interesting)
-Real-time 3d graphics of cinematic quality will always be too slow for general purpose CPUs.
-developing a game with AI that needs ten times the power of todays CPUs will take many man years and may not be that welcomed by the console audience.
-It's very difficult to do multithreaded apps, and the difficulty rises exponentially with the number of threads.
So what exactly would the be role of the CELL processor in PS3?
It would make much more sense if:
-Sony developed a platform that can move insanely great amount of graphics around, with the ability to do real-time raytracing, rather than providing so much general-purpose processing power.
-Sony developed a graphics architecture that could really be parallelised, so instead of bringing out a totally new console, they could just up the graphics spec by adding more chips. They could save millions of dollars from developing and advertising the new console.
Re:Why does a game console need such a monster CPU (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Why does a game console need such a monster CPU (Score:3, Informative)
Playing first-person shooters on a console is frustrating, since the control is designed for a keyboard and mouse. Similarly, playing a typical console 3D platformer like Wind Waker on a PC will be equally frustrating since the control is design
Believe the hype!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, look how accurate Sony's hype about the PS2 was:
The PS2 will be able to render 75 million lit, shaded polygons per second!
The PS2 will be able to run games at HDTV resolution (1280x960) out of the box with no performance loss!
We will build professional workstations out of 32 Emotion Engine chips which will be able to render movies in realtime and take over the professional graphics industry!
Since all the hype turned out to be completely 100% accurate, I'm sure we can expect the same for the PS3 / Cell Processor.
I suppose it's also possible that it will be another massively over-hyped disappointment with builtin Sony patented lameness that sucks even harder than ATRAC. But you'd have to be a real fucking cynic to believe that!
IT makes me wonder.. (Score:4, Interesting)
-jcr
Intel Prescott vs. Motorola 68k (Score:5, Interesting)
Thus, one can imagine creating a tighter core processor design with a budget of a million transistors each (15 times the original 68k budget) with a few million for L1 cache and another million for glue and then place 20 of them on a single die. Add optical interconnects and that new optical-to-silicon technology invented recently (for multiple channels of GHz I/O to feed all those cores) and you have yourself a powerful little processor.
The point is that with a budget of 125 million transistors, designers can do more than create a bloated single-core CISC processor.
Re:Apulets? (Score:3, Funny)
Basicly, it is marketspeak... (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, I see where it is going, I assume these Cell chips will be used to control hardware encoders/decoders with hard real-time limits (i.e. no frame skips and such crap). Taking the best of "dumb" hardware players of today, combined with the multitasking and flexibility of general computers.
But it is still a computer in drag. If anything, this seems more like a "retro" trend of the past, when you had active NICs/HDD controllers/whatnot with processors of their own. Now it is back with Cells instead. Just like terminals, we're coming full circle.
Kjella
Parent
Re:And this article tells us WHAT?!! (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:And this article tells us WHAT?!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And this article tells us WHAT?!! (Score:3)
Re:Future (Score:3, Informative)
past. (Score:4, Informative)
http://theinquirer.net/?article=19941
Parent
Re:past. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Folding@home? (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny. Windows adapt to a new processor! ROTFLMAO.
Linux could adapt VERY quickly to any new processor, as long as the number of "cell" is kept reasonable. However, is you are talking of a massively parallel system with dozens of processors sharing the same memory space, I do not know how well it will work.
I would not hold my breath for a Windows version. The Athlon 64s have only been out for over a year now, a