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Broadband Blimps
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:48 AM
from the i-got-no-strings-to-hold-me-down dept.
from the i-got-no-strings-to-hold-me-down dept.
mcabiling writes "SansWire Networks will demonstrate their "Stratellite" technology next week. For those of you who aren't familiar with SansWire, they plan to build a wireless network with balloons or "airships" as they call them.
"A Stratellite(TM) is a high-altitude airship that when in place in the stratosphere will provide a stationary platform for transmitting various types of wireless communications services currently transmitted from cell towers and satellites. It is not a balloon or a blimp. It is a high-altitude airship."
Looks like a blimp to me..."
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Nice technology (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like an attempt to overcome the runaway expenditures of Teledesic's [teledesic.com] failed LEO project. The problem with these high-altitude sender/receivers is that--while they offer a technology solution--there is a corresponding weakness in application.
For example, latency in these systems make it unattractive for many internet applications (who wants to play FPS's over a spread-slotted Aloha CDMA system?).
And then there is the monstrous launch and maintenance expense...
Re:Nice technology (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Nice technology (Score:5, Insightful)
So an event like the Olympics could have its cell phone and wireless coverage reinforced, and then the week after, it could be back in London for Wimpleton. (Or whatever.)
Parent
Re:Nice technology (Score:3, Interesting)
(Obviously I am making this way too simple...)
Such a plan would not be ideal... but would be better than phone alone.
Likely the better solution is a combination which also utilizes current cellular providers. If you do not get permission to place a tower somewhere, you use one of these systems t
Re:Nice technology (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Nice technology (Score:4, Informative)
For example, latency in these systems make it unattractive for many internet applications (who wants to play FPS's over a spread-slotted Aloha CDMA system?).
As long as you have a relatively nearby ground station to relay to, latency isn't a horrible problem. Right underneath one of these things, round-trip latency is about 0.13 milliseconds. At the edge of a blimp's broadcast range (around 100 km if I'm reading things correctly), it's 1.3 milliseconds round-trip.
Think of these as a much cheaper way of building a very tall relay tower, for something closer to reality than the "satellite" analogy.
Parent
Re:Nice technology (Score:3, Insightful)
And in future news (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Nice technology (Score:3, Interesting)
Geosynchronus orbit means that the satellite orbits the Earth once every 24 hours, so that it stays stationary with respect to the Earth's surface. Lower orbits have a much shorter period, meaning that to maintain continuous coverage over a fixed point you need a whole bunch of sattelites. Also,
Re:Nice technology (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A good solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, in areas where fiber is already to the door, this brings in a benefit: competition. Your local bell or cable company can't extort you for access to that fiber because you've got an alternative overhead. Furthermore, you can fit many blimps into the same coverage area, which means, you can have a lot of people competing for your dollar.
Parent
Re:A good solution (Score:3, Interesting)
In order to make the laying of fiber (or any other cable) profitable, typically companies
Small-scale wifi from balloons. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Small-scale wifi from balloons. (Score:3, Informative)
Nitrogen as a lifting gas? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Nitrogen as a lifting gas? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Nitrogen as a lifting gas? (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, you partially answered it. People hear the word "hydrogen" and lose control of their bowels.
Second, and more seriously an envelope capable of containing hydrogen for long mission profiles has yet to be invented. Keeping He is difficult, but doable.
Re:Nitrogen as a lifting gas? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
It's a Blimp... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not sure about anyone else, but I lose an hour off my battery life for a wifi signal that barely reaches 100 feet.
Coverage (Score:5, Informative)
The difference in pathloss between the SSP (21km slantrange) and the edge of a 75 mile coverage circle (122km slant range) is only 15.3 dB. Not an insurmountable design figure. You might need to use a directional antenna at the edge of coverage, where a more omni antenna would suffice at the center.
Parent
They are NOT Blimps! (Score:5, Informative)
The things that make the stratellite airship not a balloon or a blimp, based on reading the fine FAQ are:
A communication platform that sits at 65000 feet and stays relatively still sounds like a dream come true. None of the cost of keeping a constellation of LEO satellites moving, none of the latency of geosync. This would also seem a great technology for providing ad hoc coverage to a remote area for a special event. Put a couple of moderately directional (say +23 dBi) antennas, one pointed at Black Rock City, and the other at Civilization, and you have low-cost temporary ludicrous bandwidth at Burning Man. (Feel free to substitute YOUR favorite boondock~based used-to-be-cool-'til-they-sold-out art festival if you are offended by BM)
I for one, welcome our helium filled stationary communication overlords.
Re:They are NOT Blimps! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:They are NOT Blimps! (Score:4, Funny)
Burn it! Burn it! Boo! Boo!
Parent
Re:They are NOT Blimps! (Score:5, Funny)
Best line on
Parent
Re:They are NOT Blimps! (Score:3, Informative)
Only when then cow's primary means of transport is four wheels connected to its frame that roll on the ground.
According to the web site the blimp's primary means of staying aloft is the fact that it's lighter than air. It requires (and is defined by) its bouyant gas.
I shouldn't have to remind you that previous commercial blimps all had/have a rigid airframe.
The fact that it has a shap
Keith Moon says... (Score:2, Funny)
Looks to me like ... (Score:5, Funny)
Outages (Score:3, Funny)
Techsphere (Score:5, Interesting)
Techsphere [techspheresystems.com]
simpson obligatory quote! (Score:5, Funny)
Barney: Hey can I pilot it?
Pilot: I see no harm in that
Barney: Wooooooarhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
*crash n burn*
we don't want that now do we
Of course (Score:3, Funny)
Also, random fact: The spire on the top of the empire state building was originally intended to be used as a docking point for derigibles.
Another Halo Network? (Score:2, Funny)
Blade Runner Here We Come! (Score:5, Funny)
air-space restrictions post 9/11 (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought of this years ago. (Score:5, Interesting)
Considering the immense air traffic over most parts of the modern world, I figured this idea might actually work, and would require basically zero investment beyond the cost of the roaming access points -- no need to invent crazy new technology when there are already perfectly good airplanes up in the air every day anyway. I figured the airlines could be paid a reasonable royalty from the fees collected from users of the network.
Re:I thought of this years ago. (Score:3, Funny)
- Thomas;
Re:I thought of this years ago. (Score:3, Funny)
When you put it in quotes like that, it makes me think of the jump to conclusions mat.
Re:I thought of this years ago. (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, the Humanity (Score:5, Funny)
This sounds cool, but are they overselling it? (Score:5, Insightful)
And
clear line-of-site to approximately 300,000 square miles
Now a rough calculation puts its radius of coverage at about 300miles
radius = sqrt( Area / Pi )
r = sqrt (300,000 / 3.14)
r = sqrt (95541)
r = 309miles
So the distance between a device and this airship is at least 300miles.
With that kind of range, is it realistic to have the gear in a laptop/cellphone?
Would it not kill the battery? I get shorter battery life just using wi-fi.
Would you need some kind of directional arial?
I'm sure they have thought of all this, but it does feel like they might be over-hyping the usefulness.
Spherical geometry (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Tech support (Score:5, Funny)
Doh.
-m
The biggest amount of smallness possible (Score:3, Funny)
"At an altitude of only 13 miles, each Stratellite will have clear line-of-site communications capability to an entire major metropolitan area as well as being able to provide coverage across major rural areas."
So what makes a rural area a "major" rural area? A complete lack of people?
From the specs... (Score:4, Interesting)
WTF? 6 onboard GPS receivers? What's wrong with one good one. Surely a =10m precision is enough, and if it isn't they could try a differential GPS setup with two receivers, but six?!
Re:From the specs... (Score:3, Insightful)
WTF? 6 onboard GPS receivers? What's wrong with one good one. Surely a =10m precision is enough, and if it isn't they could try a differential GPS setup with two receivers, but six?!
I don't think it is a precision issue so much as it is a maintenance issue. If you only had two GPS receivers and one failed, how quickly (and expensively) are you going to be able to get up there and fix the broken before the remaining one failed and you're SOL? I'm guessing five extra GPS receivers is a lot cheaper than thr
Re:From the specs... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd also point out that there is this concept called "redundancy" which is pretty popular among engineers who build fault-tolerant systems. Look into
Remember Aerostats? (Score:3, Informative)
Imagine 802.16 on one of these things.
So is my Wi-Fi going to be telling me... (Score:3, Interesting)
"This annoucement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez" Corporation - helping America into the New World."
rigid airframe (Score:3, Informative)
Blimps are airships, and stratellites are good (Score:5, Informative)
Several operations have tried this high-altitude business. There are issues with it but if you can make it work, the advantages over satellites should be clear. Why not use an airplane? Because the damn things use a lot of fuel and must move faster than the airship might be forced by shifting winds to move--relative speed matters with high-bandwidth connections.
The high altitude is chosen in part for the coverage range, but also to seek a layer of air where the average wind _force_ is lowest, to minimize the power needed to stay in place. With this design of airship they are going to have to turn to keep drag down if the wind shifts. True of all practical designs yet except spheres which have unacceptably high drag in _every_ direction--flattened disks called "lenticular" layouts might have lower inherent profile drag but have a tendency to pitch sideways to the wind that can only be combatted with fins that break the symmetry. So inevitably they will be blown off their ideal station point from time to time, the question is can they turn into the new wind fast enough to keep the divergence small. It depends on what the system users consider a small deviation at that range.
I would wait and see if their next demo comes off. Their last demo was about a year and a half ago, using Techsphere spherical airships. Just before the scheduled launch date their demo airship blew away! Nowadays Techsphere is persuading the Navy they can reliably operate for surveillance missions--I don't know if they paid attention to suggestions from people like me about how to reduce the drag of a sphere or if they have just had the good luck not to encounter severe winds in their demos yet. But meanwhile Sanswire has clearly washed their hands of Techsphere! Anyway they have been here before. We'll see I hope.