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Handhelds HP Hardware

The Future of RPN Calculators 301

Posted by CowboyNeal from the back-in-effect dept.
Noksagt writes "HP's recent release of the 33s won't be the last RPN calculator. Former HPers at Hydrix are hyping an impressive Linux-based PDA/calculator, named Qonos. They have a survey up regarding features, etc. More information can be found at comp.sys.hp48 or The Museum of HP Calculators. A new open hardware project called OpenRPN has also begun. Their mission is to produce horizontal and vertical format scientific RPN calcs and later a graphing calc."
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The Future of RPN Calculators More

The Future of RPN Calculators

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  • The future of RPN calculators... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JessLeah ( 625838 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @05:54PM (#9330074)
    ...is to be a teeny-tiny niche market, like Linux handhelds (compare and contrast: Number of Zauruses sold vs. number of iPaqs sold).

    The Masses don't understand RPN, don't understand why anyone would want to use a "backwards" syntax, and aren't interested in listening to us nerds when we explain the very real benefits of grokking stack-based systems.

    • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by capt.Hij ( 318203 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @05:58PM (#9330123) Homepage Journal
      You are probaly right which is a shame. When I was just a lad everybody used hp calculators with rpn. In our calculus class I do not remember anyone having a problem with the chain rule. The idea of a composite function was almost inate partly because of the way you enter equations into an rpn calculator.

      I teach calculus to students who use the TI, and so many more students just do not get the chain rule. It is amazing. Moreover, it is damn near impossible to try to connect the idea to the way they think about functions and the way they key them into the calculator. The tools we use really can constrain the way we think, and rpn calculators really make you back up and rethink what a function is.

      • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by dillon_rinker ( 17944 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:09PM (#9330207) Homepage
        The chain rule??? Why would anyone have a problem with the chain rule? And what does RPN have to do with it? It's an intuitively obvious rule to anyone who has completed sixth grade:

        dx/dy = dx/dt * dt/dy

        Since you teach calculus, I'll point out that this is a serious question - what's not to understand?

        • WTF that isnt the chain rule.

          d/dx f(g(x)) = f'(g(x)) * g'(x)
          • Exactly. And figuring out how to express an equation as a set of nested functions is like figuring out how to punch it into an RPN calculator.

          • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:5, Informative)

            by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) ( 613870 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:52PM (#9330510) Journal
            That is the chain rule. Sheesh! Doesn't anyone know any mathematics these days. There's more than one type of notation for writing derivatives: f'(g(x))g'(x) is the same thing as df/dg dg/dx.
          • Go sue your calculus teacher for malpractice. Seriously. I wrote THE EXACT SAME THING you wrote, but I used differential notation. You clearly haven't been taught differential notation. You likely wasted time memorizing formulas that should be instantly grokked (and are, with differential notation). I'd bet my next paycheck that you can't explain the purpose of the "dx" in an indefinite integral (and no, it's not to show that "x" is the independent variable in the expression being integrated).

            Out of curiou

          • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:5, Informative)

            by pclminion ( 145572 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @07:00PM (#9330562)
            First, what he posted is the Chain Rule, written in Leibniz notation.

            Second, you've committed the atrocious sin of mixing Leibniz notation with Newton prime notation. What a horrific mess you've created.

            The proper way to write it would be:

            h(x) = f(g(x))
            h'(x) = f'(g(x))*g'(x)

            I think this should help explain why the Leibniz notation is so popular, because in the Newtonian notation, a prime can only bind to a name, not an arbitrary algebraic expression. Hence you are required to introduce the additional function h(x) just to allow the notation to work.

            Anyway, you're hardly qualified to school us in calculus.

            • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:4, Insightful)

              by dillon_rinker ( 17944 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @07:11PM (#9330636) Homepage
              Second, you've committed the atrocious sin of mixing Leibniz notation with Newton prime notation

              (whine)
              But DAD! This is how ALL the cool calculus textbook writers are doing it these days!
              (/whine)

              Leibniz notation is introduced in all the calc textbooks I've read with the STUPID idea that even though it LOOKS like a fraction, you can't TREAT treat it like a fraction. I suppose this is done to preserve rigor, but it is a STUPID pedagogical technique. End rant.

              The functional notation f'(x) is useful, as is the differential notation dy/dx. Mixing them gives you the worst of both worlds.

              Just to pick a nit - IIRC, Newton used a dot notation, which this screen is too limited to display. Here's an attempt at explanation. If x were a function, then x with a dot over it would be the first derivative, and x with two dots over it(like an umlaut) would be the second derivative. I don't recall where the 'prime' notation came from.

              Anyway, you're hardly qualified to school us in calculus.
              Now, don't be hard on the boy, just because his teacher is everything we've come to expect from the public education system...

        • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:15PM (#9330258) Journal
          It's an intuitively obvious rule to anyone who has completed sixth grade:

          LOL.

          Spoken like somebody who has only taken the advanced math classes.

          I mean that mostly in a good way, but you have obviously not examined the "normal" student in detail. A lot of people (scarily, possibly even the majority) graduate high school without really being able to add 17/28 + 87/98. Of those who can, few of them can explain it correctly. Of those who can, most of them lose it quickly.

          I wish it was an "intuitively obvious rule to anyone who has completed sixth grade".
          • Heh.

            OK, obviously I exaggerate a bit. Frankly, though, if you can multiply fractions (which I THINK I learned in 6th grade), you can comprehend the chain rule. In my original posting, it should be apparent that the "dt" terms out (or equate to one, if you prefer). Anyone who, on their first day of calculus class, can't be convinced that the chain rule is true should be sent back for remedial arithmetic instruction.

            Note that 'apparently true' is not the same as 'rigorously proven true' - but the differenti

          • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:4, Funny)

            by kabocox ( 199019 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @08:27AM (#9333562)
            A lot of people (scarily, possibly even the majority) graduate high school without really being able to add 17/28 + 87/98

            It's 1.4948979591836734693877551020408.

      • ??? - More Detail, please. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by students ( 763488 ) * on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:17PM (#9330267) Journal
        I am going to start calculus next year as a softmore. Can you explain this in more detail, with out actually using calculus? I want to know because I would like to buy a new calculator this summer, and I want to share this with my calculus teacher. I've tried RPN on my TI-83 plus (with RMN III and CABAMAP applications), and found it to be minorly surperior.
        • I think the parent's point is that the chain rule works by breaking an equation up into a set of simple, nested functions: 2x-3 becomes f(g(x)), where f(x)=x-3 and g(x)=2x.

          If you wanted to punch the same equation into a RPN calculator, you would need to break it up the same way. This is a pretty trivial example, but if you've used RPN (I haven't used it much at all) then I think you'll see what the parent meant.

          P.S. - Real sophomores know how to spell it. ;)

        • Re: ??? - More Detail, please. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by gidds ( 56397 ) <slashdot.gidds@me@uk> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:40PM (#9330424) Homepage
          I don't think this is anything you have to worry about, really. As someone with an honours degree in mathematics, I can't really see the connection between RPN and the chain rule, either :)

          I wouldn't worry too much about a flash calculator, either. The important things in mathematics go on in your head, and on paper. The basic arithmetic functions are jolly useful, and the trig functions (ideally including hyperbolic ones) can be quite handy, but if you can't work out the graph of a function yourself, then a calculator isn't really going to help you.

          What I found helpful when learning calculus was to think of it in mechanical terms where possible. Functions and graphs can be a bit abstract, but calculus is really about rates of change, and I found that thinking in terms of speeds and accelerations tended to give me a good mental picture of what was going on, at least to start with.

        • Re:??? - More Detail, please. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by shobadobs ( 264600 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @07:01PM (#9330567)
          I would suggest getting the HP-49G+. (I am a 49G user.) RPN might only be "minorly better," but the real question comes down to the operating system's user interfaces. The 49G's is simply far better. In RPN mode, the user can use all the calculator's features without having to jump through dialogue boxes all the time. For example, say I wanted to graph a sine curve. Instead of having to go to the "Y=" menu and such, with which we're all familiar, I merely need to type X [SIN] EQ [STO] [PLOT] [F4] [F5] [F6]. (and I can press F4 F5 F6 in very quick succession) It is really nice to use.

          After having used a TI-89, then an HP-49G, when I try going back to the TI-89 for some purpose (maybe a game, or a program i once made), I really start to notice how annoying and slow the 89's UI is.

          The HP is also much more customizable. The ability to remap the keyboard is quick, easy, and built in. There are 128 system flags for changing user settings, accessible via the MODES menu. The HP has no limit to the depth of the directory tree. Its menus are better -- they are at the bottom of the screen, somewhat like the TI-85 and Ti-86's menus, rather than having to type Shift MATH 4 4 every time you need to use a specific function.

          One of the neatest things is programming. Its programming language, Reverse Polish Lisp, is simple yet powerful. Plus, it has a built-in compiler for System Reverse Polish Lisp, and ASM.

          Plus, text-editing on the HP 49G/G+ is much, much easier. When in ALPHA mode, one can type both letters and numbers because the number pad has no letters on it.

          I used it for BC Calculus this year, and it easily served my needs.
          • Certainly not trying to argue here, but I think your example is just one of habit more than efficiency.

            [Y=][CLEAR][SIN][X][GRAPH]

            Isn't this five keys, vs eight? I can't talk about the other things you mentioned (which might be better), but the graphing example wasn't helping your case much.

        • Re:??? - More Detail, please. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by TastyWords ( 640141 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @09:39PM (#9331483)
          Big hint: even if calculators are permitted, do your best to see if you can do it long-hand. If you punch everything in, you aren't actually doing the work and you aren't actually learning the process, no matter what someone says ("The only way you can punch the right keys is if you understand what you're doing.") longhand provides better comprehension of the problem. Besides, if you get an answer you don't trust, it's easier to look through what you've done and trace your work. Punch it into a calculator and you may or may not have gotten it right - if nothing else, use it for verification if you are so inclined. But be careful - I had a prof in Advanced Calc and DiffEq who loved to give problems whose answer would be "2" or "3.7" - something which would instill doubt in most minds - "How can it have such a simple result?"

          There is a real-world situation for this: to learn to walk a tight-rope, bring it down until it's 6" off the floor. Most people have no problems practicing that way. But it's the same rope. The only difference is in your mind.

          The only "real math" classes I took in college were Calc III, Advanced Calc, and DiffEq. I hated real math that much. Having studied under Hofstadter and Erdos while in high school made me realize I needed to be open & free in my thinking - abstract algebra, group theory, and Galois' work made me realize how much more suited I was for "pure math". It's so open and you can create anything you want to with your imagination.
          I just wish the regular high school classes taught students something other than "real math" algebra and calculus so students could see a difference and which is better suited for them.

    • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by John Whitley ( 6067 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:18PM (#9330273) Homepage
      ...is to be a teeny-tiny niche market, like Linux handhelds

      The market probably won't be huge, but that has nothing to do with it's RPN-ness or Linux-ness. That has to do with relatively small numbers of folks who need a powerful math appliance.

      On the other hand, this has the potential to be the iPod of the Mathematically Inclined. If the software and industrial design are done well, it has serious hope to be a hit on college campuses, as well as with a variety of technical professionals.

    • Re:The future of RPN calculators... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:34PM (#9330375) Journal
      The Masses don't understand RPN, don't understand why anyone would want to use a "backwards" syntax, and aren't interested in listening to us nerds when we explain the very real benefits of grokking stack-based systems.

      The benefits are quantitative in that it is less keystrokes to evaluate a given expression. Don't sell it in terms of "grokking", because that gets into personal psychology which cannot be easily measured. Instead, count keystrokes. "You can finish more of your exam in the given time-space" for example.
      • The real benefit to RPN is not the number of keystrokes or the speed at which it can be used (although it is superior for those reasons). The real advantage is that evaluating expressions with RPN makes it feel like you are evaluating the expression, whereas using "algebraic" mode is more like typing in the expression and getting an answer. RPN feels more natural, because you evaluate the expression as you would with mental math.

        Interestingly, I have noticed that after having adopted RPN and used it for

  • Qonos???? (Score:5, Funny)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @05:54PM (#9330076) Homepage Journal
    Q'onos? Isn't that like the Klingon homeworld or something?

  • these calculators make mine look old-skool. seems kind of pricey for $350+, my TI-83+ was C$120.

    i guess it may be useful for some people who need the extra features or want the fancy gui. but really, who needs stereo audio input/output?

  • I still have an RPN calculator (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) <seebert42@gmail.com> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @05:55PM (#9330083) Homepage Journal
    I installed The DIV Calculator for PocketPC on my Windows CE device because I missed my old HP32s.

  • maxima (Score:5, Informative)

    by John Meacham ( 1112 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @05:55PM (#9330090) Homepage
    maxima.sf.net is a truely awesome symbolic algebra program, it is derived from one of the first ever 'modern' computer algebra systems and was recently made open source.

    If it could be put into a calculator, that would rock.

  • Bad title (Score:5, Funny)

    by Decaff ( 42676 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @05:57PM (#9330098)
    Surely it should be

    RPN Calculators Future of the

    • Re:Bad title (Score:5, Funny)

      by Chester K ( 145560 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:07PM (#9330190) Homepage
      Surely it should be RPN Calculators Future of the

      Well, more accurately it should be "Calcuators RPN Future the of", but if I were to point that out I'd be basically admitting how much of a geek I am.
      • I would infixify yours as "RPN Calculators of the Future" -- which is a better title for the story anyway. :-)

  • Zaurus Support? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tji ( 74570 )
    I see from the information about the "Qonos" Linux based calc that it uses an XScale (ARM) processor - like the Zaurus's do.

    If it's using the same OS, on very similar hardware, the Zaurus would be a good development/prototype platform. And, it would give us Zaurus owners a good calculator option.
  • It is also been 10 years since I bought it, but it is the bomb!

    200LX forever!

    Includes graphing on a large screen, full keyboard, etc.

    And runs DOS 5.0!

  • Linux based RPN calculator ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by YetAnotherName ( 168064 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:00PM (#9330132) Homepage
    Sort of like putting a Saturn V on a pair of inline skates? This device certainly blurs the line between PDA, notebook, and calculator. Although programming wise, linking it to /usr/bin/dc ought to be a no-brainer. Waiting for your caculator to boot-up might get a bit annoying after awhile.

    Other obligatory comments:
    • But, does it run Linux?
    • Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!
    • In Soviet Russia, Polish notation reverses you!
    • I am Polish, you insensitve clod!

  • More details and pictures (Score:5, Informative)

    by Warlock48 ( 132391 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:01PM (#9330133) Homepage
    There's more details and pictures on hpcalc [hpcalc.org].

    Quote:

    Operating system:
    eCos, running in 512KB SRAM and providing one month of battery life
    Linux, running in 64MB of SDRAM and providing considerably more than a day of battery life

    Other software:
    Emulation of both the HP 49G and the TI-89
    Advanced math software: Gnuplot, Giac/Xcas (supposedly better than Maple), MathsExplorer
    PDA software: calendar, tasks, notes, time management
    Datalogging capabilities

    Processor:
    Intel PXA 263 XScale processor, running at 400 MHz
    32MB of on-chip flash memory
    32-bit data bus

    Display:
    Grayscale 3" 320x240
    Full support already exists for a color screen to be offered at a later date

    Other hardware:
    Mono speaker and microphone
    Stereo audio input and ouput ports
    Keyboard with tactile feedback designed for fast, accurate data entry
    Compact Flash Type II slot
    SDIO slot
    IrDA port
    USB client and host ports, supporting external keyboards, webcams, and other devices

    Optional sled:
    Vernier probe compatible
    8 analog I/O channels
    16 digital/sonic I/O channels
    Extra high-capacity lithium ion battery
    DB-9 serial port

    Price:
    Over US$350

  • Natural it isn't (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 14erCleaner ( 745600 ) <FourteenerCleaner@yahoo.com> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:03PM (#9330150) Homepage Journal
    RPN obvious isn't. Backwards to people it seems. (Star Wars I've watched times many, true.)

    On the other hand, RPN does inspire near-religious devotion in some, especially those who used the early HP calculators back in the 70's. My engineer dad would have killed for one of those back in '74 or so, but they were too expensive at the time.

    • Re:Natural it isn't (Score:3, Interesting)

      by pdbogen ( 596723 )
      Hell, I first used it in the mid-nineties, and I'm near-religious. Infix is so slow when you're doing simple (complex) arithmatic... You mean I have to use parentheses? WTF?

  • Integration in PDA/Calculator (Score:5, Insightful)

    by beatleadam ( 102396 ) <{flamberge} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:04PM (#9330158) Homepage Journal
    From the OpenRPN Project Website [openrpn.org]
    Here is a short list of some planned features:
    *Philips LMC210x ARM7 CPU
    *Flashable ROM
    *MMC/SD expansion card support
    *20 digit accuracy
    *USB connectivity
    *Several forms of I/O
    *3"x5" PCB for internal expansions/modules
    *Hi-Resolution LCDs
    *All aluminum watertight body
    *Molded-through keytops (customized sets will come standard)
    *High-durability anodized finish
    *Customizable keyboard overlays
    *Positive tactile keys
    *Reverse RPL compatability
    *A nice thick manual

    This sounds just like the PDA I would Love to have which is of course the point here.

    My single question is one of integration in that I do not want to carry a full-featured Calculator and a PDA I just want the PDA itself yet with this awesome calculator function integrated. Where does the line exist anymore between PDAs and Calculators especially Linux powered devices?

    • Re:Integration in PDA/Calculator (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Except OpenRPN isn't trying to be a PDA. It has the hardware to do so (except that the first model will be a small horizontal format, a'la the HP Voyager (11c,12c,15c,16c) series. 1 or 2 lines makes for a difficult PDA. The open nature will likely let people put PDA features on it, but that isn't the goal of the project (though it is the goal of the quonos, which was also mentioned).

  • "Linux-based calculator" (Score:5, Funny)

    by leshert ( 40509 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:10PM (#9330220) Homepage
    Linux-based calculator


    Is it just me, or does that have the same ring as "fuel/air explosive-based cigarette lighter"?

  • No one ever forgot to return my RPN calculator (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:11PM (#9330226)
    As a high school student, I loved my HP "Reverse Polish Notation" calculator. Whenever someone would ask to borrow it, I would say, "Sure, you just have to remember that if you want to add 4+2 you have to enter '4', 'Enter', '2', 'Plus'."

    This scared everyone away, and they went on to borrow someone else's calculator. I didn't have any trouble with people "forgetting" to return the calculator, I still have it to this day. Thanks, HP!

  • For HP to sell more RPN calculators (Score:4, Insightful)

    by I kan Spl ( 614759 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:11PM (#9330230)
    they need to fix those buttons. I mean, the old style buttons on the 32SII and the 48GX rocked. Why, or why did they ever have to change to those evil plastic buttons? Was this a cost-saving thing, or just a tatic to make sure the calcuators died out?
  • when it killed-off its handheld division a few years back. I was deeply hurt when news of the HP48GX was no longer manufactured. This was a niche market that all the geeks gravitated toward. I have five HP48s: three HP48S's, one HP48SX, and one HP48GX. The best calculator of all time: solid, dependable, when the batteries get low, it automatically goes into 'Coma Mode' to preserve the memory, and the keys were had colored embedded plastic instead of paint for the numerals and functions. These things la
    • when the batteries get low
      The batteries get low?? I have an HP 20S (non-RPN thank you very much), which I bought over 10 years ago, and is unbelievably still running on the batteries that came with it.

      But yes... I do love my HP calculators

  • My $2E-2 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eaolson ( 153849 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:16PM (#9330262)
    I'm a scientist, and I use my HP 32S daily. I probably couldn't function without it. It's RPN, doesn't graph anything, and has fairly limited memory and programming abilities. But I like it. I have to say that I hate the idea of this calculator/PDA thing.

    I don't want my calculator to be my PDA. I have a PDA for that. They're different devices with different interfaces and should be used for different things. I put an RPN calculator on my Palm and, although I can use it, it's awkward and clunky. I use it only when I have no other choice.

    I don't want a graphing calculator. I like my one line of text. If I need to graph anything, then I'm probably doing it for a complicated reason, and I'll fire up Matlab or Origin at my desktop. My calculator is for, just that, calculating.

    The website brags that this thing has a whole month of battery life in it's low-power mode. Big fricking deal. I bought my HP in about 1990. I have replaced the batteries in it exactly ONCE. There's nothing more useless than a calculator that you've picked up and realized you forgot to plug it in last night to recharge it, and it's dead.

    I don't want a fold-out keyboard that's probably fairly fragile and won't last too long. I want something sturdy that will stand up to significant, continuous use for years to come.

    Why can't someone just build a good calculator that does what it's supposed to, and not some calculator / PDA / laptop / Borg monstrosity?

    • Re:My $2E-2 (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Noehre ( 16438 )
      Amen, I used a 32S all through middle school and into high school before it gave up and died on me. It was subsequently replaced by a 48GX which I believe I lost recently (I can't find it).

      If they made a 32S with 4 visible lines of stack, I could die and go to calculator heaven. Best calculator ever
      • If they made a 32S with 4 visible lines of stack, I could die and go to calculator heaven. Best calculator ever
        Yeah, my main use of my 48G's screen in high school was to be able to see all the stuff on the stack .. graphing wasn't something I did every day, but being able to see what was on the stack was always useful.

    • Obvious answer. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by raehl ( 609729 ) *
      Because that calculator has already been built, and you already own it.

      Thus, building it again isn't likely to be profitable.
    • I have to say I often fire up matlab nowadays to do
      basic math. I wish someone did a calculator with
      a full matlab environment (simulink and all). That
      would blow away any option on the market whether
      TI or HP or Casio. This would redefine back-of-the-
      envelope calculations.

    • Re:My $2E-2 (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dwhitman ( 105201 )
      Another scientist chipping in, and I couldn't agree more. I've been using a HP15C for about 20 years now and live in terror of the day it dies, because I can't replace it. I had and loved a HP32 that died; but I like the form factor of the 15C better.

      I don't want my calculator to do mediocre graphing or mediocre symbolic logic or mediocre numerical analysis or mediocre monte carlo simulation, yadda yadda yadda - for anything complicated, I'm going to use my workstation with a big display and high end so

    • Re:My $2E-2 (Score:3, Insightful)

      by starseeker ( 141897 )
      "Why can't someone just build a good calculator that does what it's supposed to, and not some calculator / PDA / laptop / Borg monstrosity?"

      Because stable and reliable doesn't convey "status" like the "latest IN gadget", and thus marketers don't know what to do with it.

      When's the last time you saw an ad for anything that featured detailed description of the actual merits of the product, as opposed to pretty people having fun/doing work/both? I've never heard a commercial for a car say, for example, talk

  • Shameless Plug (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kwiqsilver ( 585008 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:21PM (#9330293)
    For those who love RPN, check out this RPN calculator for GTK (now GTKmm2.2 compliant):
    ghsiloP [sourceforge.net]
    I discovered last night that the stack doesn't scroll when you add lots of values, but I'll fix that soon.

  • Guess (Score:2, Funny)

    by cpt_rhetoric ( 740663 )
    that means one more 1st year engineering student hazing ritual down the tubes. First the slide rule and now RPN calculators. What's next?!?
  • This reminds me of my High School Calculus class. We got HP 48s when they first came out. I remember everybody bitching about the price tag being ridiculously high.

    After playing with the device for a few weeks, I built a data cable and, about half way into the trimster, did load an IR library onto the thing (think remote control emulation). Man, we had a lot of fun with that thing (my High School had cable TVs in every room and in the halls so we had a lot of fun).

    And I still have that calculator and use

  • this needs linux? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pedantic bore ( 740196 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:56PM (#9330534)
    I think it's a bit weird that people are building linux-based calculators. Doesn't that seem like a bit of overkill? The memory required to boot linux is at least 1,000 times the memory of my trusty old HP.

    Everyone in the Slashdot community seems so worried about the Microsoft monoculture, and yet here we are pushing linux into every possible niche. It can't be optimal to have the same OS running on both our calculators and our supercomputers.

    • Re:this needs linux? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by n3k5 ( 606163 )

      Everyone in the Slashdot community seems so worried about the Microsoft monoculture, and yet here we are pushing linux into every possible niche. It can't be optimal to have the same OS running on both our calculators and our supercomputers.

      I surely wouldn't buy an expensive calculator that runs out of batteries much faster than my PDA, but I'm glad that people are doing research in that area and maybe improve the system so it becomes easier on the hardware and cheaper; just as I think it's a good thing

  • RPN is cool for more than engineering (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TykeClone ( 668449 ) <TykeClone@gmail.com> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @06:56PM (#9330535) Homepage Journal
    I've got an old HP28S and work for a bank

    During "Y2K", we had to do lots of testing of interest accruals, and it was a lifesaver.

    LONG LIVE RPN.

  • If it's a powerful, ergonomic device with unshifted hex keys (A-F) like the 16C - even if it also has keys G-Z there's a good chance I'll buy it at almost any price under $500.

    If it's a PDA/Calculator hybrid with a touch screen, forget it! I don't want to have to choose between greasy fingerprints or always fumbling for a stylus.

  • The past RPN of (Score:4, Informative)

    by wombatmobile ( 623057 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @07:12PM (#9330642)

    Reverse Polish notation was invented by an Australian [liv.ac.uk] in response to Polish notation, which was invented (gasp!) by a Pole [calculator.org].

    The whole story here is [calculator.org]

  • still remember how I was using one of those in insurance company where I've worked as a programmer.

    One of the actuarials asked me to borrow it.

    Sure I said, but it uses RPN.

    What is RPN? she asked.

    Reverse Polish Notation - I've answered.

    She looked at me VERY SUSPICIOSLY.

    Is this somd kind of polish joke? -- she said.

    (beautiful girl, by the way. and actuarial)

  • The past and future of RPN (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nybble's Byte ( 321886 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @07:59PM (#9330922) Journal
    I've been using HP calculators ever since buying an HP-35 in 1973. I wandered off the path a couple of times but not for long, because RPN just makes total sense.

    The tremendous success of the HP-12C in business is proof enough. And ask any HP-41 user how he likes his machine. The thing is a tool that helps you get a job done in as few steps as possible.

    I use a 48GX or 49g+ every day. I much prefer the 48GX keyboard and the location of the Enter key (although I'm slowly getting used to that), but everything else about the 49g+ is better: much faster, much better and slightly larger display, and lots more 'stuff'.

    Unlike some people I don't mind the 48/49 implementation of RPN (actually RPL) compared with the old style 4-level stack, but a lot of old timers refuse to use the RPL machines that started with the 28. At the same time I still like the 41/42 a lot. There's surely a place for machines like the 32S II. It remains to be seen how the 33S with its odd looking keyboard does in the marketplace.

    I'm one of a very few who have an HP PDA based on Linux that never made it to production. Display contrast isn't very good, but otherwise it's decent but not feature laden because the project got killed and people lost their jobs. For this reason it's heartening that someone's talking about doing an HP handheld running Linux, and I'll support their efforts any way I can. It's about time for the user community to pitch in - this reminds me of the PPC 44 project talked about what, 20 years ago?

  • My first introduction to RPN came during the ACT (Score:3, Funny)

    by cosmicg ( 313545 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @08:58PM (#9331259)
    My junior year of high school, I was rushing off to take the ACTs (like the SATs) and either I couldn't find my calculator, or it wasn't allowed. I ransacked the house, and came up with two calculators: a little four-function calculator my mom used for balancing the checkbook, and my dad's HP (I think it was an 11c). Of course I took the HP, and I was well into the test before I realized that it was "broken." Luckily the math was easy enough that I didn't really need it, but I was sweating when I first tried to use it (45 * 32 Enter)

  • The future of RPN is in the past (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cdw3423 ( 785393 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @09:10PM (#9331343) Homepage
    The HP 15C may well be the ideal pocket calculator for today, when more complex calculations are done on a desktop computer. Bring Back The HP 15C [hp15c.org]

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