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First DVD+R9 Burners Reviewed
Posted by
simoniker
on Thu May 06, 2004 07:31 AM
from the double-the-fun dept.
from the double-the-fun dept.
Hack Jandy writes "DVD dual-layer burners finally seem ready for the public - today, a review of the Sony DRU-700A was posted by Anandtech, and teasers of the BenQ 830A posted at CDRInfo.com. Unfortunately, the drives seem too slow to to really warrant a purchase."
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lets get rid of the obvious responses.... (Score:4, Funny)
2) They'll come down in price eventually
3) That's way to slow for me! I want gigabytes/sec!
4) Dual-sides? I think we should be writing on the
edges as well by now.
Re:lets get rid of the obvious responses.... (Score:3, Informative)
These aren't dual-sided. These are actual dual layer DVD+R discs that will play in a standard DVD player. With these dicsc, you can make an exact copy of your DVD9 discs (A lot of movies and some video games use these dual-layered DVDs) without spending time trimming off the bonus material, languages, etc. and/or messing with the quality.
Yeah, the discs are probably going to be more expensive, but *shock* some people's time is
Re:lets get rid of the obvious responses.... (Score:4, Informative)
DVD Shrink [dvdshrink.org]
- (sorry, windows only app.)
Parent
MPAA Intervention? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:MPAA Intervention? (Score:5, Informative)
That would be a strange move on their part considering the following, from the MPAA website:
"The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) serves its members from its offices in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. On its board of directors are the Chairmen and Presidents of the seven major producers and distributors of motion picture and television programs in the United States. These members include:
- Buena Vista Pictures Distribution;(The Walt Disney Company)
- Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc.;
- Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.;
- Paramount Pictures Corporation;
- Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation;
- Universal City Studios LLLP; and
- Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc."
I would think there is at least some communication between the different divisions of Sony.Parent
Re:MPAA Intervention? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't. Large organisations are typically pretty much separate companies. The only parts they share are the sharehlders, who aren't really too interest in exact the product portfolio.
Parent
Er... (Score:4, Insightful)
This would be the same Sony whose music division created copy-protected CD albums that couldn't be used with the electronics division's Net-MD player's ripping system, yes?
Parent
Re:MPAA Intervention? (Score:3, Funny)
I don't care if they're slow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I don't care if they're slow. (Score:5, Interesting)
DVD-shrink will still have its purposes, though. I've run a couple of my daughter's Disney DVDs through it so (1) she'd never touch my originals and (2) it plays the movie directly - no menus, no commercials, no format setup screens.
I'm actually thinking about how many of AB's Good Eats I can cram onto one disc - they take up a lot of room in the jukebox at just 3 episodes per disc. I just need a way to get a "top level" menu to access all the original content without a buttload of re-authoring. Dual sided would be even better (since the jukebox can flip a disc internally).
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Disney Commercials on DVD (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:I don't care if they're slow. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I don't care if they're slow. (Score:4, Informative)
Frame size: 720 x 576
Frame rate: 30 fps
Chroma subsampling: 1.5 (assuming YUV 4:2:0)
Duration: 90 mins
720*576*30*1.5*90*60 / (1024^3)= 93.9 GiB
Conclusion: these discs don't have anywhere near the capacity to hold an uncompressed film. In addition, the drive could not read data off the disc fast enough for real-time playback (max speed was quoted at 16620 KB/s)
Lossless video codecs can get you a ratio of around 10:1 though, so that's a possibility.
Parent
Not flawed... (Score:4, Informative)
In this example the Y (luma) component is 720x576, but the U and V (chroma) components are subsambpled to 352x288 each. This results in half the amount of raw data versus 24-bit RGB at virtually no loss in perceived quality.
Parent
Re:I don't care if they're slow. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I don't care if they're slow. (Score:3, Informative)
CDs and DVDs Not So Immortal After All [yahoo.com]
Re:I don't care if they're slow. (Score:4, Informative)
Anyone have any idea when DVD Shrink will be available for DVD-9? I'm waiting for DVD Shrink to support the drives before I buy one.
Parent
Intervideo DVD Copy (Score:3, Interesting)
Honestly, I only use it to strip out what I don't need to make an uncompressed backup. Then I fire up Intervideo DVD Copy to shrink down and burn--it has absolutely the best compression I've ever seen. Often times you can't tell the difference between the original and the copy. Not to mention, it's much faster than DVD Shrink's "Deep Analysis."
Is it just me... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not saying I like taking my time with a DVD to do some sweet authoring down by the fire. But it seems to me, at least, data density, features and price are the determining factors. I'm not banging out a couple hundred copies of my greatest DOA:Volleyball matches (Unrated edition) for sale on ebay, so the time it takes to burn one isn't exactly critical.
Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it's overrated by most people. Most don't need to burn 50 DVDs/day, and if they do, they've got the funds to invest in more burners.
The problem specifically, I have found, is that people burn at top speed, which makes their system mostly unusable during the burn due to IO load -- so they complain that it takes "too long" as they must 'wait' for it to complete.
What I do instead is burn at a slower rate (2x), which doesn't starve my IO, meaning I can actually do other things while "waiting" for the burn to complete.
PS. SCSI-trolls can stay away.
PSS. My first CDR burner topped out at 1x and had a 64Kbyte buffer. Only stable in Win 3.11 due to the small buffer.
Parent
Re:Yes. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is all with totally standard consumer equipment. No SCSI, just a group of Maxtor 160GB drives sitting on a Maxtor/Promise controller in the PCI slot, in an ABit mainboard. Boot/swap drive is plugged into the mainboard.
If you're getting I/O bound on a > 1 GHz machine at 4x write, you may have config problems. Check and make sure your writer is running in UDMA mode, and your drive isn't horribly fragmented.
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Re:Is it just me... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Is it just me... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't _need_ DVD-9 capability for backups, but it is nice to know is available in a "pro-sumer" device. In that sense, two DVD-5s at 2x or better would be quicker but that also takes more user time.
I'm willing to take a bargain on 1x media because I don't burn discs very often. If I was into DVD authoring, then it might be
To slow compared to what? (Score:3, Insightful)
P.S. why in the heck won't this thing let me post on the article BLAH..I don't hve an account why are you discriminating against me becuase I don't wish to register?
Too slow?? (Score:4, Funny)
How amusing (Score:3, Interesting)
I haven't been keeping up- I predicted the end of the year. Then again, reading the review I'm not sure I'd want one now anyway.
Re:How amusing (Score:2)
--trb
How about media ? (Score:5, Interesting)
How about dual layer media ? Any mention of availability and price ?
Re:How about media ? (Score:4, Informative)
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MPAA can cry all they want (Score:5, Interesting)
(yes, my main applications drive is bigger than 4.3G...it's about 60GB. That's why it gets imaged by Ghost on a removable drive once a week. Yes, I've tested it...swap the primary with the backup and it's transparent. I sleep much better knowing that in the event of a major HD crash, I'm less than $100 billable time from being back in business)
Hell, yeah (Score:3, Interesting)
First thing I'm gonna do is backup my Extended Edition LOTR DVDs (all 8 of 'em...soon to be 12 when ROTK comes out). I'm sick of fumbling with those big foldout booklets, and the collector's geek in me doesn't want to be handling all that stuff all the time and instead keep it in the box.
Better than my current 45 mins per R5 (Score:2, Informative)
Not half bad!
Linux packet writing support? (Score:2)
This may be slightly OT, but what experiences does people have with using DVD+RW for packet-writing under Linux? What drives are recommended with Linux?
What I would like to do is to use a DVD drive as a (large and fast) floppy disk - preferrable compatible with InCD and DirectCD for Windows. I have already tried to use my CD-RW burner with Peter Oesterlunds packet writing patch [telia.com], but with mixed success.
I have read somewhere, that packet writing will not be added to the main line kernel before the
DL recording by firmware hack (Score:5, Interesting)
Or maybe I'm just desperate having purchased a vanilla DVD burner a few months ago...
Re:DL recording by firmware hack (Score:3, Informative)
Writing needs more laser power than reading - so some drives may only be able to focus the read laser onto the second layer.
Another thing to consider is focus blur - when reading the laser also shines unfocussed on the outer layer, it doesn't matter much. But when writing you have to be careful not to apply too much power to the layer you don't want to write to, or you'll end up writing stuff that you don't want.
Finally though - yes, for many drives it is just a firmware upgrade. T
Re:DL recording by firmware hack (Score:5, Informative)
Furthermore, the Anandtech article did state that they managed to convert a GO-W0808A to burn DVD+R9's:
"In fact, several other MT1818E burners are capable of firmware upgrades to DVD+R9. In fact, using beta firmware upgrades, we actually got our Gigabyte GO-W0808A to burn DVD+R9 as well. Keep in mind that the GO-W0808A retails for less than $110, while the DRU-700A will hit shelves at $199. Although the Sony DRU-700A is a considerable step up from the DRU-530A, we would have to recommend the GO-W0808A if it costs $90 less and performs the same." - AnandTech
Parent
DVD Formats (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:DVD Formats (Score:3, Informative)
Buy dual format (Score:3, Informative)
My personal opinion is that -R media has a slight edge in compatibility with a few older DVD-ROM drives and a few more older DVD players; DVD-R is endorsed by the DVD Forum and its specification is "official." This distinction is disappearing as new players and -ROM drives almost always support both formats.
I use -R exclusively, but primarily because I got a -R/RW drive dirt cheap, I knew worked in my DVD player, and it's the only write-once
Re:DVD Formats (Score:3, Informative)
DVD formats [videohelp.com]
dvd-R has the HIGHEST compatability in stand alone DVD players. hands down. this is an industry fact that all DVD replication houses stand by if they are going to do a short run on writeable media. long runds are always pressed media.
some people try to say otherwise, but I would trust a company making money replicating DVD's and publishing short run DVD's than some guy screwing around in his basement. also media companiesthat make commercials use DVD-R only as well a
the article on one page (Score:5, Insightful)
Hollywood's worst nightmare (Score:3, Insightful)
45 minutes isn't slow... (Score:3, Informative)
Remember waaaay back when the first Pioneer DVD+R drives came out? IIRC, it took hours to burn a 4GB DVD. I'd consider 4 hours too slow to warrant buying a drive, not 45 minutes.
I think the tradeoff of speed vs storage space is well worth it, personally.
What about compatibility (Score:3, Insightful)
What about price and compatibility? (Score:5, Interesting)
One DVD9 will be more expensive than purchasing two separate DVD5s. What's the point in using it, then? I could see if current DVD-R prices dropped to 50 cents a disc and the DVD9's took over the $1-2 range, but it doesn't look as if it will be that way.
And compatibility... if your DVD player is able to play DVD-R and DVD-RW, would it play DVD-R/RW DL without any issues? It might be fine for data backup, but if you can't copy movies and watch them, then that's a problem.
Re:DVD+R? (Score:4, Informative)
The only format it didn't support was DVD-RAM.
Parent
Re:available space (Score:3, Informative)
Stamped DVDs can be single (4 gig and a bit) or dual layer (9 gig and a bit)
Until these drives came out, writable media was only single layer - so 'only' 4 gig.
Re:available space -- 8.5GB vs. 9GB? (Score:3, Interesting)
This was confusing me, too, but I found this chart in the DVD FAQ [dvddemystified.com] which does seem to indicate that pressed dual layer DVDs are also limited to 7.95GB.
Can any DVD experts confirm that pressed dual layer discs have the same storage capacity as DVD+R DL discs?
Re:available space -- 8.5GB vs. 9GB? (Score:3, Informative)
8,547,991,552 bytes (7.96GB) less the overhead of your file system of choice.
Sony DL Info [sonyburners.com]
DVD Formats [disctronics.co.uk]
Disc Max User Capacity Note :DVD5 4.7GB Single layer Single sided disc
:DVD9 8.5GB Double layer Single sided disc
:DVD10 9.4GB Single layer Double sided disc
:DVD18 17.1GB Double layer Double sided disc
:DVD-R 4.7 GB Single layer Single sided disc
:DVD-RW 4.7 GB Single layer Single sided disc
:DVD
120 mm
120 mm
120 mm
120 mm
120 mm
120 mm
120 mm
Re:exploding discs (Score:3, Informative)
1. DVD-/+RW drives, dont need to spin the discs as fast, they can read more data, even spinning at slower speeds, due to how the data is compacted on the surface of the disc.
2. Multiple heads and tracks have already been discussed in many a "look a new harddrive" thread, all ended the same, it's too hard (ie. expensive) to syncronize the writing, you could not get coherent data, unless maybe you wanted to consider it as disc partitions, you can have 4gig here, and 4 gig here, but no 8gig files