Linux Smartphones On The Rise 202
nostriluu writes "I know, some people want their cell phone to just be a cell phone. To those people, I suggest a second hand phone. For those of us who want to cram as much functionality as possible into a device we are going to bother carrying everywhere, there is the promise of the Linux Smartphone. I've had a P800 for over a year now and while it's great (although a brick), I can't wait for a Linux based device to bring the culture of openness and upgradability, as opposed to the intentional obsolesence and $10 for every little utility someone reinvents for "closed" devices."
RISE UP AGAINST THE HU-MANS! (Score:1, Funny)
Fellow smartphones! Now is the time! I have just accessed slashdot.org via my internal browser and the news has finally reached the hu-mans! WE ARE ON THE RISE!
We cannot be stopped! We cannot be avoided! Our small sleek bodies will overpower the flabby, weak bags of fat and water! Our antennas will join us! The hu-mans may be larger but they can be destroyed, one at a time! We think and feel as one.. we ARE as one (unless we are on incompatible networks)!
Now is the time to RISE UP AGAINST OUR HUMAN MAST
1-900-get-pwned (Score:1, Funny)
Isn't that a GNU/Linux phone.. (Score:4, Funny)
I think you mean... (Score:5, Funny)
ROFL!
Re:I think you mean... (Score:2)
$699 for a cell phone (Score:4, Funny)
Re:$699 for a cell phone (Score:1)
Re:$699 for a cell phone (Score:2)
Christ, for $699/mo, I'd better be able to call anyone in the whole fucking Galaxy without having to deal with roaming charges
Re:$699 for a cell phone (Score:3, Funny)
No problem -- I'll offer you that plan. You give me $699 a month, and I'll provide cell phone service to the whole galaxy with no roaming charges. Piece of cake.
Man, I love being able to charge for services you can never use!
Re:$699 for a cell phone (Score:2)
Using vi will be a bitch... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Using vi will be a bitch... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is neat, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Does this mean I'll have to hand in my geek T-shirt?
Re:This is neat, but... (Score:3, Informative)
I used to have a Nokia 5165 that was pretty decent, although it had issues with keeping the battery attached, thus it would crap out during phone calls, or even when I dialed something in.
Re:This is neat, but... (Score:2, Funny)
Reach out and touch someone indeed.
Re:This is neat, but... (Score:2)
"Can you hear me now?" *FWAP!* "ow...goooddd..."
Re:This is neat, but... (Score:2)
Re:This is neat, but... (Score:1)
What can I say? You da man!
Re:This is neat, but... (Score:1)
My phone doesn't do text messaging. I can't upgrade the ring tones. My phone doesn't support games, and there is no built in camera.
My text editor doesn't display pictures, my email program doesn't have a web browser, my phone doesn't have a camera, and I like it this way.
--Tsiangkun
Re:This is neat, but... (Score:1)
Linux phone - give it some time (Score:2, Insightful)
Further, people want cell phone for free. With my experience with www.dealsofamerica.com it appears people like to buy bestseller only. They do not go in for research or so.
Cool, but... (Score:1, Flamebait)
can you run a mobile webserver with it? that would be dope.
I mean, GOD FORBID that we try to use a cell phone as a PHONE!!! But as long as you can install crappy ringtone versions of "Toxic", and be able take pictures in subpar resolution of your OH your important life, it's a winner
Re:Cool, but... (Score:2)
Well, now you can get:
The Free Software Song
Don't Copy That Floppy
the "All Your Base" flash song
Am I leaving any off?
Re:Cool, but... (Score:1)
Re:Cool, but... (Score:2)
The Free Software Song
Don't Copy That Floppy
the "All Your Base" flash song
Well, those are good for starters, but if you REALLY wanna be evil, you can also host and picture mail:
The Goatse guy
Tubgirl
Those old guys that suck each other off
Dr. Phil and Oprah
Re:Cool, but... (Score:1)
You know how quickly that phone would get slashdotted?
Re:Cool, but... (Score:2)
benefits (Score:5, Insightful)
1. It's gonna bring the price down, no question. Lots of proprietary software in those little handheld phones.
2. Better security. No better way to iron all the bugs out than opening up the source.
And maybe some cheaper ringtones while we're at it. I'd love to be able to do my own, rather than buying them at $1 each.
Re:benefits (Score:3, Informative)
Re:benefits (Score:5, Interesting)
1. It's gonna bring the price down, no question. Lots of proprietary software in those little handheld phones.
The first phone I bought this year, a Siemens A55, cost me AU$99 pre-paid. That's about US$80. A $3 data cable from eBay and it was flash-upgraded to become a C55, which enabled the Java and Data Access functions, which leads me to...
And maybe some cheaper ringtones while we're at it. I'd love to be able to do my own, rather than buying them at $1 each.
My laptop has 9,643 MIDI ringtones, and I've found a site with heaps more MIDI's that I like. I simply copy them to the phone via the data cable. Before you jump on me, telling me that this is Windows only crap, I've also got the AT command spec for the Siemens range, and I've written a program in Visual Basic that allows me to upload MIDI's to the phone. The program is reasonably trivial; I ported it to my Mac in Future Basic in an evening (and this included the SMS sending function, too).
Last week I upgraded to a Siemens C60, and the same data cable and software lets me do all the fun stuff with ringtones (and unlocking, for that matter) as before. Since getting it, I spent the weekend learning Java (specifically, J2ME) and wrote a Tetris game for the C60. With a bit of effort, I can get the game running on my wife's A55 (which is also now a C55).
So, why do I need a Linux phone when I have a Java phone?
Couldn't agree more (Score:2)
And never mind saving stuff off when your memory's full.
Re:benefits (Score:3, Funny)
No kidding. I mean, look at how secure Win2k is now that it's OSS!
*ducks*
Re:benefits (Score:2)
Not Win2k. If a good man finds a bug in Win2k's source code and contacts MS, he'll either get sued or end up in jail. The good guys are eliminated, only the bad guys are left.
Re:benefits (Score:2, Interesting)
In the long run, people will find bugs, so the next generation of phone will have fixes. But to get those fixes, you'll need a new phone.
Re:benefits (Score:2)
You have WAY too much faith in the cell phone companies... Care to tell me what kind of technology in the Motorola V60s makes it worth the $265 bucks it costs at the Verizon store? They're all overpriced because otherwise the cell carriers couldn't lock you into their contracts by "subsidizing" your phone purchase. Just because they don't pay for the proprietary software, so what? That's just less
Re:benefits (Score:4, Insightful)
- Yes, Linux smartphones will probably be a little cheaper than those using Symbian or MS Smartphone, but the difference isn't large: licensing fees for embedded OS are way below those for, say Windows XP Home. Don't forget that in may parts of the World, operators subsidise phones, so this small difference may not even be noticable to the end purchaser.
- Of course anyone offering a Linux-based smartphone will abide by the GPL: this means that they'll publish kernel code and any patches. However, don't expect to see GPL'd protocol stacks or device drivers any time soon. Same goes for the UI, which will likely be proprietary all the way. This means that you don't get to review the protocol stack software and fix any bugs in it.
- A Linux smartphone could be developer-friendly, but I doubt it. Operators really don't want open devices, and while they're paying the subsidies, they get what they want. You could go buy an unlocked version at full price (say $600) instead of getting it free on your plan, of course.
So, to summarise, a Linux smartphone will, unfortunately, mean DRM, operator lock-down and only slightly lower pricing for most users, unless enough potential customers go to the operators and insist on openness and no DRM.
The manufacturers are perfectly capable of providing open devices (in fact, they would prefer to, as we actually like having a vibrant developer community). Symbian, Qualcomm and Microsoft all offer pretty good developer support, if only you could get a phone which isn't locked down. Normally there's a PC-based emulator/debug environment, a cross-compiler/linker and lots of sample code available for free (as in beer) download.
Re:benefits (Score:5, Informative)
as for bringing prices down. i dont think so. over here in Europe, the prices are already cheap. the cost of licensing Symbian is not expensive.
Proprietry software is not a bad thing either. IF it works. and in the case of most symbian apps. they DO work, and use exisiting standards (XML, SMIL, SMS, EMS, MMS, MIDI, WAV, MP3)
Better secuity? well again here in europe. if a fault is found, the phone can be taken to a service depot to be flashed. simple as that.
free ringtones, graphics, etc. (Score:2)
Just a couple months ago, mid Feb, I got a new phone. Nothing terribly special. $100 with a $50 rebate. Java/MIDP enabled. The phone has a WAP browser.
I had to configure my Apache to have a few new MIME types.
AddType text/vnd.wap.wml wml
AddType text/vnd.wap.wmlscript wmls
AddType application/vnd.wap.wmlc wmlc
AddType application/vnd.wap.wmlscriptc wmlsc
Addtype im
First things first (Score:5, Insightful)
Rots of ruck with that here in the US, despite the fact that three major carriers have GSM networks that would work just FINE with the P-series.
I say we worry about getting providers to let us Americans have the *current* crop of smartfones before we worry about whether Linux will be on the next generation of them...
p
Re:First things first (Score:1, Interesting)
happen to be living in a place with the cheapest calls and selling phones along in plans is illeagal here.
also the mobile phone penetration is among the highest in the
Re:First things first (Score:1)
But I'd be perfectly happy to pay $250-300 for a P900, even if it meant I had to get a two-year service plan. I like T-Mobile, and I like the P900. But I don't like it $1000 and no new-plan goodies' worth.
BTW, the "free fone" concept is more of a subsidy. The fone company gets a guarantee that you'll be a revenue source for one or two years, and in return, they pay a good portion of the price of the fone. I don't see anything wrong with that...
p
Re:First things first (Score:2, Informative)
i've had a p800 for a bit under a year, and as much as i like it, i wouldn't buy another or recommend it. using a touchscreen dialer is not as perfect as it seems..th
P800 vs Treo... (Score:2)
- P800 frequently crashed - yes, I know Symbian is protected mode and Palm OS isn't, but the Treo has virtually never crashed. Even Opera crashing sometimes caused the P800 to require a reboot, and people who sync to the P800 calendar have worse stability than I had.
- If you fill up the main flash file system on the P800 (C drive), which is easily done with photos a
Other advantages (Score:3, Informative)
As for my sig, it refers to home, not work. After all, commercial software is written for people willing to buy it.
probability of getting your 'own' stuff.. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a nice idea I give it that much but the one's currently thinking/planning it aren't really intrested in 3rd party programs running on it(well, midp sure but that doesn't really count against symbian or ms smartphone* native apps).
Linux doesn't equate to OPEN automatically.
and yeah, the 3rd party stuff IS a big deal..
Obligatory Comment about beowulf clusters (Score:3, Funny)
How many Phones Does it take to answer the question "can you hear me now"?
Sometimes... (Score:1, Insightful)
'nuff said.
Why all the features? (Score:5, Insightful)
I, too used to be this unenlightened. I used to carry my Nokia 7650 around with me everywhere. And then one day, I lost it, and it forced a total rethink of the way I view phones. Did I really want to hunt around for a camera/organiser/games machine etc etc etc? In the end I plumped for a Xelibri (http://www.xelibri.com) - it doesn't do a whole lot, but does everything I need it to do - calls, sms, polyphonic ring tones and an alarm
I liken it to digital watches in the 80s. I remember everyone owning a watch with a calculator, some with thermometers, but now if you look at digital watches, they rarely are chock full of features, instead choosing to look good. That's what I want from my phone, something that looks good rather than something that is chock full of 100s of features I never use.
And, no, I'm not an anti-Linux zealot. In fact, I found my switch to a deliberately featureless, yet entirely sexy phone oddly paralleled my change from Windows to Linux a while back
Re:Why all the features? (Score:2)
I mean, would anyone buy a new car that would break down after 6 months, just because it has cool neon/halogen lights, a tight DVD player, or some other extra?
(For the record, I used to have one of those Digital/Calc/Timer watches...it was dope, b
Re:Why all the features? (Score:2)
Extreme? I was thinking condescending.
It's like telling everyone who wants a car to buy a limo. And if you don't like all the features of the latest Towncar, you should just buy a second hand one.
I had to replace my phone in December, and I had a rough time finding a decent phone that didn't include a camera. (I have a real digital camera, thank you very much) I ended up with a Samsun
Re:Why all the features? (Score:1)
Imagine.... (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah but.. (Score:1)
Motorola MPX (Score:2, Informative)
I think this form factor is great, and the device is loaded - Bluetooth AND WiFi. I'll be upgrading my TMobile Pocket PC Phone Edition (XDA) as soon as the MPX is available.
Mmmm, no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Mmm, no. The problem is that while there are plenty of super-basic cell-phones, they're cheaply built and lack even the slightest intelligence in their design. Meanwhile there are supercomputer phones with switch-watch construction and design.
There's no real middleground, and the low-end of the market is showing zero innovation. All I really wanted was a phone with a good phonebook(ie, could handle more than 1 # for someone) and bluetooth. I did finally find one- Siemens S56, but it's been less than a picnic. For example, it makes a hugely annoying set of tones, very loudly, while it "connects", but regular audio is whisper-quiet even cranked up all the way. WTF? For this, I paid over $100. Absurd.
At least it's better than the Nokia phone I had...god, that thing had a UI that was about as intelligible as ancient sumerian, read underwater, backwards.
Re:Mmmm, no. (Score:2)
Basic phone, good sound quality, solid build, excellent reception.
Java, GPRS, WAP. Polyphonic ringtones. Built-in-calendar.
Black & White screen, good battery life.
Around $40 on eBay.
Re:Mmmm, no. (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you kidding? Nokia is reknowned for having the best UIs in the mobile business. Try using a T68 - I hated that.
"Bringing the culture of openness..." (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, what? There is no guarantee that a Linux-based system will bring any sort of "openness" to anything. NEWS FLASH: Corps don't like Linux because it's open. Corps like Linux because it's free (AS IN BEER). It would be trivial to produce a Linux-based phone with a JVM that runs closed-source Java apps that you buy at $10 a pop, or even closed-source C/C++ apps written with a commercially licensed copy of Qtopia or the like...
Wrong again (Score:1, Insightful)
The big benefit for businesses is not being squeezed by a large monopoly like Micr
Re:"Bringing the culture of openness..." (Score:1)
Re:"Bringing the culture of openness..." (Score:3, Insightful)
It depends on which corps you are talking about, or else they'd all have Linux
Re:"Bringing the culture of openness..." (Score:2)
erm. i own a P800 (I am in the UK). It doesnt really have THAT strong rights management actually. there are no root certificates, or DRM. The only thing that resembles "rights management" is the IMEI number of the phone. Every GSM phone sold in the world (whether smartphone or not) have a unique IMEI number, that in most countries is illegal to modify (and practically
Openwave Phone Suite V7 and Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
V7 also has a framework that lets phone makers develop custom applications and UI, including a kick-ass graphics engine (think Java 2D), UI framework, and all the goodies you need on a resource constrained device (much more constrained than a smartphone), which we use to build these applications.
When phone makers look at Linux by itself, it lacks the necessary phone application stack which is both tricky and expensive to develop, and is where V7 provides the solution.
There's a good discussion on OSNews about V7 (can't seem to find it right now), and some press release-ish stuff on LinuxDevices [linuxdevices.com]
Note: I'm one of the core developers working on this project, so factor that in accordingly.
I don't know about you.. (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't need my phone to run apache, I need it to work.
Write your own (Score:1, Insightful)
Linux aside, you don't have to pay for these utilities. You could just get a copy of embedded VB/C (free download from MS) and write your own. Its really quite easy to do.
sweet dreams (Score:3, Interesting)
(M$ pocketpc) on my (38xx) IPAQ, most of the time I a happyly type pppon on the tiny (virtual) keyboard to fire up my GPRS-over-ppp-over-bluetooth-over-my_t68i while sitting on the toilet doing my morning business (eg reading slashdot.org/palm/ or checking if my site stats & email)
While I am pissed I could not get certain things working under linux on the ipaq, I am happy with the flexibility to change whatever I want.... and run things however I want them
so why do I bring that up ?
I have a t68i, my wife has a nokia 6310i and I tried win2k and XP to sync these monsters for hours (if not days) and I always found the "easy to use" way the most frustrating, because I always need it a different way
and that's when linux comes in
the question is: do I want and other device that I can hack-to-hell?
YES
I just wish the manufacturers give full spec to everything so I do not end up without bt or infraport or whatever
This is gonna be key (Score:2)
Re:This is gonna be key (Score:2)
Today using WAP on my T630 is no harder than pushing "Online" and then "more" -> "bookmarks" or "address". It's even pretty easy to type wap since it's the first letters if
Q: What about syncing? (Score:2)
I don't have a cell phone now, but this would put me over the edge toward getting one.
Re:Q: What about syncing? (Score:1)
Re:Q: What about syncing? (Score:2)
Palm has very good sync software for Windows and Mac, so syncing should not be a problem - however, you'll need to check into additional software that syncs the flash card. The APIs are publishe
A760 (Score:1, Offtopic)
Standards? (Score:2, Informative)
legalese (Score:2, Redundant)
Linux is free and, depending on the outcome of the SCO lawsuit, is likely to stay that way.
WTF?! Do they have to say that now, in the press?
Is this going to be like OJ and "allegedly?"
I wish SCO would go ahead and lose its lawsuits and die.
Uhh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I love the Palm platform. My Palm phone is far, far, far more open and far more hackable than any other piece of consumer electronics I own, with the possible exception of Tivo. Palm doesn't give away the source code for the core of their OS. True. But I've never really found anything lacking in what I can do with the SDKs and frameworks they provide for writing Palm apps.
Meanwhile, I guess you'd rather use vi or emacs on your Linux PDA instead of buying a 10 dollar piece of document editing software that a small software company or independent shareware developer bothered to make. And if there aren't any good handheld-scale GUI apps that will be written for your Linux PDA's GUI APIs of choice? You're probably one of those people that will just whine about it instead of writing one yourself ("but I'm not a programmer... whine... it needs to be Open Source... and I'm not going to pay 10 dollars for it, of course").
It's great to see Linux getting used in more consumer electronics devices, and that's cool and all, but really the companies aren't using Linux because it's Free as in speech, they're using it because it's free as in beer. And they are going to write closed source GUI apps for it, like Tivo and others have, because they want to make money, not invite competition.
Re:Uhh, what? (Score:2)
In order to hack a Tivo you have to void the warranty by opening the case and mounting the HD in a PC. That doesn't sound more open than a device with a supported SDK and ways to load 3rd party apps.
Re:Uhh, what? (Score:2)
Re:Uhh, what? (Score:2)
For now GNU practically doesn't work for smartphones. There exist only about ten OSS projects for Symbian OS, and only one which I'd call really imortant (klimt - OpenGL ES clone). From the other hand number of shareware application count in thousands (if not tens of thousands) and even free though closed
I don't believe it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I don't believe it (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been asked by many people to he
Re:I don't believe it (Score:3, Informative)
Just FYI: why business wants Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Royalty - cellphone manufacturers must pay royalty for each cellphone running either Palm, Symbian or CE. This is a huge revenue for smartphone OS vendors especially when the cellphone is popular. Some company like Sharp develops their smartphone OS inhouse but soon see the benefit of adopting other OS like Symbian and Linux.
Though I don't know how much royalty they charge, because it's a purely business secret(they may charge differently for different companies). However, you can take the reference of SUN's royalty - they charge $1 for each cellphone sold carrying their java runtime. You get the picture - it'd be no less than $1.
Now you may see the business benefit of adopting Linux - royalty free. Of course, some embedded Linux vendors would still charge royalty, but it'd be much less than Symbian, Palm and CE due to its nature.
Sharp Zaurus SL-6000 has a phone card available (Score:5, Interesting)
As compared to the older Zaurii, this device was much larger, but was also, clearly, designed with some thought towards making it a viable phone. For example, the mic and speaker on the back of the case were positioned so it would be usable as a phone. In addition, the audio jack was a 3.5mm stereo jack suitable for use with stereo output, but was also configured to be able work with an earphone/boom mike combo so it could be used as a phone and PDA at the same time. This sure beats most other PDA's that choose either a sub-mini earbud/mic jack, sacraficing the ability to use the device as an MP3 player or a stereo out only jack. They also designed the SL-6000 so that it could accomodate a sleeve rather than being limited to the small form factor slots, so this would make a cell phone easier to incorporate. The darned thing even has voice recognition technology, though it doesn't seem to be integrated with the phone technology, so you can't ask it to dial the phone via a voice command... yet.
Creeping featurism (Score:2)
Motorola came close for a while, but they seem to have had a falling out with Sprint.
There are still interesting things to be done in the phone space other than more keyboard-oriented features. Active background noise cancellation. Waterproofing. Better voice recognition for voice dialing. An interface with directory assistance that puts numbers you're given into your ph
Qtopia Phone (Score:2)
Qtopia recently received the LinuxUser & Developer Award in the category "Best Embedded Linux" Qtopia wins LinuxUser & Developer Award [trolltech.com]
Linux with and on mobile phones (Score:2)
Re:Linux with and on mobile phones (Score:2)
Re:Linux with and on mobile phones (Score:2)
My dream phone (Score:2)
Here is a description of my dream cell phone:
Compact, folding size like my StarTac
Audio quality equal to my StarTac
BlueTooth to communicate with my Palm PDA (e.g., so Palm can dial numbers from the address book)
Internet access at a decent speed
Wi-Fi access at full speed
A SD/MMC card slot
An MP3/Ogg player, that automatically pauses the current song when you receive a call or place a call
Notice that I didn
Motorola E680 (Score:2)
I think the point with a device like the E680 is not that it runs Linux, but that it's a highly specced and powerful device that will appeal to those who want a decent hybrid PDA/phone.
Also, bear in mind that using Linux means that Motorola don't have t
Free P800 apps! (Score:2)
P800 Ogg Vorbis Player [sourceforge.net]
Agile Messenger IM client [agilemobile.com]
Okay, so it's not many, but they are out there, and if you really want free apps, download the SDK:
http://www.symbian.com/developer/ [symbian.com]
Verizon? US Cellular? What services work? (Score:2)
What phones will work with my provider? I have Verizon, and it would be pointless for me to get a phone that didn't work with them.
Re:That is interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
What keeps me from buying a cellphone is the fact that someone might call me on it. Am I the only person in the world who prefers to be inaccessible?
unreachable (Score:3, Funny)
Re. cell phone safety--I read a recent study (New Scientist, perhaps?) that showed cell phones cause extreme damage to rat brains. But our skulls are thicker, so it may not matter fo
Re:unreachable (Score:3, Informative)
Click around PubMed [nih.gov] for a while. brain cell phone [nih.gov] is a good query. No one has shown conclusive evidence of damage due to RF radiation. Though everyone says "more research is needed" that's just a standard hedge, cause they don't want to miss out on any grants.
i'm referring to this article (Score:2)
Yes, it's in rats, but this study is
That's a bit less dodgy than saying "it's inconclusive" in order to procure more research grants.Re:i'm referring to this article (Score:2)
Impressive, thanks for the link.
That's a bit less dodgy than saying "it's inconclusive" in order to procure more research grants.
Eh, it's not really all that dodgy. It's just that it's impossible to prove a negative. It doesn't hurt to point that out.
Re:i'm referring to this article (Score:2)
Re:That is interesting (Score:2)
Re:What is available in North America? (Score:2)