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Emulate Nintendo on Your MessagePad

Posted by pudge on Sat Feb 28, 2004 01:07 PM
from the yes-that-nes dept.
Businesses Handhelds Apple Hardware Entertainment Games
Green and Geeky writes "That Marvel of a PDA, the Newton MessagePad, has always been a good product. It does a lot of things: plays MP3s, connects to the Internet wirelessly, can be used to bludgeon someone, fits in your pocket (if you're a giant), etc. Now, it plays Nintendo games. Strange, yes, but still pretty cool. I can't play Legend Zelda, Final Fantasy, or Dragon Warrior on my Palm V." And I don't need to waste money on a Game Boy Advance!
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  • Bandwidth Fun (Score:5, Funny)

    by TPIRman (142895) * on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:07PM (#8417250)
    Newtendo has hit the big times! However, earthlink just let me know that if I get much more traffic this month, I'm gonna be shut down until next month.

    Well, it was nice knowing you.

    • Re:Bandwidth Fun (Score:5, Insightful)

      by byolinux (535260) on Saturday February 28 2004, @03:58PM (#8418310) Journal
      Another example of the inconsiderate slashdotting factor.

      Would it really be such a pain for pudge/whoever to setup a little mirror before slashdotting the fuck out of the poor guy?

      That said, it seems like a good project... maybe I'll buy my friend Dr Mark a Newton now -- he never had a NES.

      "Eat up Martha"

  • Anyone figured out how to... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by podperson (592944) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:08PM (#8417260) Homepage
    ...install Newton OS on an iPaq?

    The iPaq's with ARM chips are basically a Newton with a color screen and more memory. Then we really wouldn't need a GBA.
    • The Newton uses a huge number of custom proprietary chips relating to things such as its operating system and Newton data soups that have thus far made emulation entirely impossible. The mere fact that the iPaq uses an ARM chip won't allay those problems.

      • Re:Anyone figured out how to... (Score:5, Informative)

        by podperson (592944) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:31PM (#8417374) Homepage
        The operating system is ROM. The data soups are implemented in software.

      • Re:Anyone figured out how to... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by WileyWiggins (622087) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:33PM (#8417389) Homepage
        Uh, and it doesn't run anything even remotely similar to the Newton OS.

        What I want is a little handheld computer that runs Mac OS 6. It wouldn't be that hard to do and you have a literal ocean of abandonware out there you could use with such a device.

      • Re:Anyone figured out how to... (Score:4, Informative)

        by kabdib (81955) on Saturday February 28 2004, @08:00PM (#8419730) Homepage
        IIRC, the Newton has one truly custom chip (which does memory interfacing, DMA, interrupts, timers, A/D for the tablet and so forth).

        The kernel makes extensive use of the ARM 610's MMU (especially its domain and sub-page-granularity protection features), so porting the OS to another platform would be quite exciting, but the application (Newtonscript) world is pretty isolated from the wacky stuff going on the OS. You could probably fake-out a fair amount of the OS and the apps would run.

        Here's a reference [nec.com] to a paper on the Newton OS that we presented at CompCon in 1994.
    • " ...install Newton OS on an iPaq?

      The iPaq's with ARM chips are basically a Newton with a color screen and more memory. Then we really wouldn't need a GBA."
      Well, you wouldn't need a GBA or anything related to it in this instance anyway - the article is about a NES emulator. ;)

    • Why do this? (Score:5, Informative)

      by gotr00t (563828) on Saturday February 28 2004, @02:00PM (#8417535) Journal
      If you want to emulate nintendo games, there are native emulators for the iPaq and other PocketPC platforms. Just check out pocketNES [retrogames.com] for example. It runs at full speed, no frame skip, and even COLOR, something that the newton does not have.
    • "The iPaq's with ARM chips are basically a Newton with a color screen and more memory. Then we really wouldn't need a GBA. "

      A small handful of people who are willing to go with inadequate controls rejoice!!

  • Here it comes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by GoMMiX (748510) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:09PM (#8417262)
    I smell a cease and desist letter on it's way, $5 bucks says the term DMCA will be used ATLEAST once!

    • Re:Here it comes (Score:4, Informative)

      by RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) <.taiki. .at. .cox.net.> on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:36PM (#8417401)
      Given the number of NES emulators out there, I doubt this one is very special.
    • "I smell a cease and desist letter on it's way, $5 bucks says the term DMCA will be used ATLEAST once! "

      I doubt it. Emulators are not illegal. ROMs are not illegal. Illegal is when you use an emulator to play a ROM you're not licensed to have. I don't even think the DMCA would be involved here unless somebody bypassed a protection scheme to get the ROM uploaded. That, however, is up to the original infringer, not the guy who makes it available for download.

  • Amazing (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:09PM (#8417268)
    Most Slashdotters are too young to remember the NES

    • Re:Amazing (Score:5, Funny)

      by stonebeat.org (562495) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:15PM (#8417293) Homepage
      the old Slashdotters never left the slashdot.org. They were just modded down.
      Surf safely. Don't Slashdot and Surf

    • Re:Amazing (Score:5, Funny)

      by Monkelectric (546685) <slashdot AT monkelectric DOT com> on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:15PM (#8417295)
      Aye, but some of us don't need to emulate as we still have them :)

    • Re:Amazing (Score:5, Funny)

      by jefdiesel (633290) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:54PM (#8417507)
      Most slashdotters are too young to remember The Newton
    • I disagree, most of us were raised on that damned thing. Let me say a few things that will trigger some huge memories for a lot of people. Karnov, Ikari Warriors, Captain Skyhawk, Spy Hunter, R.C.Pro AM, and many many more. Anyone between 21-30 right now most likely spent a reasonable amount of time playing this system. I was born in 1979, so I did get to play on the Atari beifly, but this was really my original, the first system I was hard-core on. In my opinion the best consoles ever, in no order are, The

      • Re:Amazing (Score:4, Informative)

        by TheKidWho (705796) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:18PM (#8417311)
        there is an SNES emulator for the tapwave zodiac, And there are also SNES emulators available for PocketPCs The zodiac though has the best layout for SNES IMO. The snes emulator for the zodiac is currently being beta tested, and runs very well.

  • Portability is a bit of a pain... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Space cowboy (13680) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:11PM (#8417276) Journal
    I actually quite like the Newton, though I think it was a bit ahead of its time and tried to do too much. It's a cool hack to get it playing Nintendo games, but would you really walk around with a bag to hold the 'pad, to play games on ?

    It's useful when allied with a briefcase. I can't see it really as a games platform (on the other hand, my phone plays Doom quite well, (Nokia 9000 :-) so whatever floats your boat - the phone's easier to carry though :-)

    Simon

  • MIRROR (Score:5, Informative)

    by chrisopherpace (756918) <cpace AT hnsg DOT net> on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:12PM (#8417281) Homepage
    http://hnsg.net/~cpace/ninendo/ I'm only on a 512 line, but this should hold for a while, lets keep earthlink off his back!

  • Google Cache Version (Score:5, Informative)

    by CeleronXL (726844) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:18PM (#8417315) Homepage
    Why doesn't Slashdot link to Google cached versions [216.239.41.104] of pages instead of slamming webmasters using little Earthlink accounts with ~10 MB of bandwidth? Oh well. There's the google version.

    • Re:Google Cache Version (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      if you mirror the home page, he's still gonna get slammed once people click on the links to other pages. esp. the ones with the screenshots.

      slashdotted in 3...2...1

      • All an irate webmaster would have to do is say that Slashdot essentially copied his page (cache or no) and benefitted from it for their own subscribers. Smells like a lawsuit. Now you know why Slashdot doesn't cache.

        I understand the reasoning for "playing it safe", but the slashdot effect is nothing to be taken lightly. It's really an "unintended" DDoS. Someday Slashdot is going to get sued because of it, and I'll be glad, because only then will we actually get some sort of mirror or cache links. The

  • Newton's still the best. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Dan Crash (22904) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:20PM (#8417320) Journal
    If you've never actually seen the latest version of Newton handwring recognition in action, take a look here under Newton Usability [newtenlightment.de]. "Eat up Martha", my ass. Makes Graffiti look like the kludgy hack it is.

    And did you know you can sync your Newton with iTunes [pixell.net] wirelessly? Even the latest iPod can't do that.

    Apple got everything right with the Newton except the size. What a foolish mistake they made cancelling it as a product instead of redesigning it in a slightly smaller form factor.

    • "Best"? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SuperBanana (662181) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:31PM (#8417379)
      "Eat up Martha", my ass. Makes Graffiti look like the kludgy hack it is.

      Sorry, I have a MP2100 and the famous Simpson's reference was not far from the truth at all. You had to be exceptionally careful with your handwriting, and still often had to correct it. It would misinterpret taps, and it was impossible to correct letters out of order(say, you forgot to cross your t- out of order scribbling got me 90% of the time).

      Graffiti is not a "kludgy hack", its a system that is designed to quickly and accurately enter data, which is what a PDA needs; my Handspring was much better for most of the typical PDA usage- entering phone numbers or appointment times. Sure the Newton's natural system is faster for writing large amounts of text(assuming you have perfect handwriting) but people just didn't(and still don't) use PDAs for that sort of thing. They use- gasp- notebooks(and I don't mean the electronic kind)

      • Best! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Dan Crash (22904) on Saturday February 28 2004, @06:29PM (#8419255) Journal
        I've heard this before, and it just doesn't ring true for me. Graffiti requires you to be much more "exceptionally careful" with your handwriting. If you can make Graffiti work for you, you can certainly make the Newt's much more flexible handwriting recognition engine work with much less effort.

        I think it's a conceptual problem, really. The Newton attempted to recognize all handwriting, and thus many users blamed the Newton when it couldn't decipher their illegible script. It was Apple's fault, not theirs.

        But the Palms didn't even pretend that they'd recognize your handwriting. They simply forced users to learn a new way to write. If Graffiti failed to recognize what you wrote, well, then you must not be doing it right. So people blamed themselves instead of the device.

        my Handspring was much better for most of the typical PDA usage- entering phone numbers or appointment times

        I think entering phone numbers and appointment times became "typical PDA usage" because that's all you could conveniently do with Graffiti. That's my experience anyway, YMMV.

        Sure the Newton's natural system is faster for writing large amounts of text(assuming you have perfect handwriting) but people just didn't(and still don't) use PDAs for that sort of thing.

        I'd say that there's an amount of text between the size of a phone number and a "large amount of text" which is what the Newton was really designed for. Short notes, quick e-mails, reminders, that sort of thing. And lots of people have been very successful using it for just that.

        Again, whatever works for you, works for you. But I personally really liked what the Newton did, and would've loved to see what a 2004 Newton OS and handheld would be like.

    • While some may want a mini-newt.. Most of us that have used netwtons, miss the size in the smaller 'modern' pda's.

      Such tiny modern screens make it pain in the butt to use. Sure it fits in a shirt pocket ( though the newt fits in a SUIT pocket.. its inital target market ) but still...

  • Windows CE (Score:5, Informative)

    by Dan East (318230) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:30PM (#8417364) Homepage
    Pocket PC and Windows CE devices have been emulating PS1, GBA / GB, NES, Genesis, MAME, and many other consoles for a number of years now. Even PS1 runs incredibly fast due to the coding talent and dedication put in by various developers.

    While this may be news for this specific platform and OS, emulating NES is very old hat when it comes to the world of PDAs in general.

    Dan East
    • Are there really PocketPC devices out there with enough memory to waste with a CD image for a Playstation Emulator? I fould what seems to be the site for the main PSX emulator, but there's no mention of the process required to rip a gaime. I assume you have to manually remove all sound and video, but it still sounds like these games would be huge in comparison to say, SNES.

  • I miss my Newt. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bug-Y2K (126658) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:30PM (#8417369) Homepage
    I used a MP2000 as my primary computer for almost two years. I was "commuting" between the US & UK and used it - along with a Ricochet (R.I.P.) in the US and Nokia cell PCMCIA card in the UK - for browsing, email, telnet (with PT100, killer app!), etc. So I was wireless when mobile, and on Ethernet when at a desk... All pre-802.11. This was circa 1997 BTW.

    It was nice to carry virtually all my computing needs in a "daytimer" sized case. People bitch about the Newt's size, but compared to a circa-97 brick of a 7lb laptop? Is was VERY small.

    To date the NewtOS was pobably the most elegant OS ever created... and I've run them all. The only thing it didn't do well, at least until now, was gaming. I played a lot of NewTRIS, and I seem to recall a snood, or snood-like game too but Newtgaming was limited to puzzles or very simple action games (like a sub depth-charging thing that I can't recall the name of)

    I might have to charge it back up now and play some old NES game. =) Nice to see the Newt still breathing.

  • Gameboy for Palm OS (Score:5, Informative)

    by stuckpixel (146684) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:44PM (#8417448)
    I can't play Legend Zelda, Final Fantasy, or Dragon Warrior on my Palm V.

    Um, actually you can. Gambit Studios [gambitstudios.com] has had a gameboy emulator out for the palm os for quite some time. Some of the older palms are a little sluggish, but it works.
    • And while you can't do NES games on the Palm V, Kalemsoft [kalemsoft.com]has an NES emulator for PalmOS 5 based devices. They also have a Game Gear/Sega Master System emulator as well. And with Tungsten E's being available for under $150 some places, that's a good reason to upgrade from the V. Color, tons more speed, more memory, and you can play MP3s on it as well.

      • Re:Gameboy for Palm OS (Score:4, Interesting)

        by PhoenixFlare (319467) on Saturday February 28 2004, @02:13PM (#8417596) Journal
        Actually, Zelda DX [gamefaqs.com](Otherwise known as The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX) is a colorized version of the Gameboy game Link's Awakening from 1994, with a bit of extra stuff added.

        Maybe you should watch a little closer the next time she plays it.

  • Eulogy for the Newton (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SoupIsGood Food (1179) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:50PM (#8417486)
    Progress isn't guaranteed. Innovation, once it hits the marketplace, is not destined to take root. The Newton was the first PDA platform, and going on six years after its demise, it's still the best. It had, essentially, one deficiency, and that was in its size. This was easily rectifiable, especially with the technology of the day. It's death was the result of ego rather than sound business, and perhaps the largest mistake Jobs made in turning Apple around.

    Now, even though we have machines who's hardware is more than equal to the old newton, none have its ease of use, utility or ease of development enjoyed by the Newton. It's utility as an everyday computer in the modern age is a testament to Apple's software engineers, who Got It Right the first time out, and a condemnation of Palm, Microsoft, Symbian and Sharp, who still can't approach it so many years after its demise.

    SoupIsGood Food

  • 1997 Technology? (Score:5, Informative)

    by XavierItzmann (687234) on Saturday February 28 2004, @01:53PM (#8417501)
    The Apple Newton was discontinued in 1998.

    The Newton browses the internet wirelessly via Airport (a.k.a. Wi-Fi or 802.11);
    http://www.ff.iij4u.or.jp/~ngc/eng/newtwave.htm

    syncs with nSync (OS X)
    http://www.everchanging.com/newton/

    syncs your MP3 collection with iTunes
    http://www.pixell.net/newton/

    runs a Java Virtual Machine (waba)
    http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/projects/newton/waba/

    there's been a VNC client since... ever
    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/saweyer/newton/vnc.h tm

    A processor accelerator is available
    http://shop.pixsolution.com/catalog/product_info.p hp?products_id=29

    Apple was one of the original investors in the ARM technology, from way back before Intel ever dreamt of buying it. The Newton runs a RISC StrongARM at 162 Mhz (compare to a 2003/Tungsten T2 running OMAP/ARM at 140 Mhz !!!)

    If anything, the major weakness of the system is its limited memory heap, but we are talking about a 1997 design here.

    Can you say... Apple ahead of its time?

  • Gatta hand it to 'em... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Valiss (463641) on Saturday February 28 2004, @02:02PM (#8417546) Homepage
    ...I swear this thing has the most loyal cult following ever. For a product that didn't sell well (or as well as it should have), I'm still amazed that people are still modding these things up. Great works folks!

  • My Newton (Score:4, Interesting)

    by OPTiX_iNC (691070) on Saturday February 28 2004, @03:22PM (#8418084) Homepage Journal
    You wouldn't beleive the looks I get when I pull it out in public (my newton) but I still love it, and the NES emulator makes it so I can waste even more time in class.

    I have been following the NES emulator and have been using it since version 0.12. Right now several people are working on getting a NES controler working on the newton so we can play with a contoler.

    I wonder how many people are going to be storming the J&K Sales store to buy a newton now...

  • Newton Revival (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Saturday February 28 2004, @03:57PM (#8418301) Homepage Journal
    What apple needs to do is bring the newton back. It was way ahead of its time ( well, and expensive ) but now the public has caught up.. The time is right for the return of the only true PDA ever.. ( bastardized versions of windows or the clunky 'palm-OS' don't really count.. )
    • If you buy a GBA with the intention of playing NES games on it, you are wasting money (and probably need to be smacked in the head). I'd say it's still a good deal if you want to play GBA games, though. ;-)

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