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Cheap Linux Tablets, And (Maybe) An Apple Tablet
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Dec 01, 2003 08:23 PM
from the truth-and-speculation-obscure-each-other dept.
from the truth-and-speculation-obscure-each-other dept.
penguinrenegade writes "Element Computer has come out with the first sub-$1000 Tablet, and it doesn't come with Windows. It's not running a stripped OS like Windows CE, but a full-fledged copy of Lycoris Desktop/LX. This company seems to really have it in for Microsoft, with a 'No Windows' policy. Good to see someone finally standing up against paying the Microsoft tax. Maybe now we'll start seeing Linux only OEMs and resellers." Also on the tablet computer front, SeanAhern points out Cringely's latest Robert X. Cringely column, in which Cringley makes the case that Apple is readying a tablet computer for market, and "suggests that 'until next year, the parts won't have been there to make tablet PCs successful. What's missing has been the killer app, and what kept a killer app from appearing was a lack of hardware support, which I believe will be over soon,'" writing "He's got some interesting ideas about where Jobs might go with his Digital Hub idea." (This is an Antaur-based machine, not the Toshiba tablet mentioned in October.)
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Built in TV tuner! (Score:5, Interesting)
Inkwell == Rosetta (Score:5, Insightful)
For certain uses, tablets are great. I loved the Newton - it was a great computing solution for people who have to stand up. (Like walking around doing inventory control, or doing data entry while inspecting a highway, doctors, etc.)
If Apple could also market it so that it competes with something like the Wacom Cintiq tablets, but also could have a keyboard plugged in and be like a full blown Mac, I could see it filling a niche.
Parent
Re:Inkwell == Rosetta (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Obligatory Simpsons Ref (Was: Inkwell == Rosetta) (Score:3, Funny)
Jimbo: [Writes "Beat up Martin"; Newton "recognizes."] "Eat up Martha"? Bah! [Throws at Martin's head.]
Re:Inkwell == Rosetta (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Built in TV tuner! (Score:5, Insightful)
You say that as if those two sentences had anything in common. IIRC, there was virtually no real demand for the iPod when it was introduced (a 5GB digital music player? and $300 to boot??), but it was so whiz-bang and easy to use that it literally created its own market. For what it's worth, the original Apple greenscreen PCs did pretty much the same thing. (The main reason the Newton failed is because it wasn't as easy to use as it needed to be; it fell to Palm to reach that goal.)
Right now, there's no demand from the market for tablet PCs whatsoever. The demand is from Microsoft, and from those hardware companies they've sold on the idea. But if/when Apple introduces one, it will need to be the most intuitive, uncomplicated, and convenient thing that anyone has ever made. Anything less, especially with Apple's market share, will be a flop and Jobs knows it.
Parent
choice (Score:3, Insightful)
windows, linux, or blank hard disk.
Eehh, Inkwell (Score:5, Interesting)
Even if I write like an angel, it screws up my words and sentence spacing.
Moreover, I can honestly type a hell of a lot faster (50+ wpm) then I can handwrite or shorthand.
Parent
Re:a BOLD prediction (Score:3, Funny)
Interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
Fastest Slashdotting ever? (Score:4, Interesting)
1226 - User 'elementc_ms2' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 10000)
Does that mean there are in excess of 10,000 people trying to hit this site at once? Wow.
Re:Fastest Slashdotting ever? (Score:3, Insightful)
Robert X. Cringely (Score:5, Interesting)
For all the stupid things i have seen on
Re:Robert X. Cringely (Score:4, Interesting)
As far I I'm concerned, he's a totally worthless and annoying analyst. He rarely knows what the hell he's talking about.
I don't know what slashdot sees in him either most of the time.
Parent
Re:Robert X. Cringely (Score:3, Funny)
kinda like an analyst...
Re:Robert X. Cringely (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, it's unbelievably muddled -- Cringely suggests that Microsoft could simply pick up the Windows GUI system and magically turn it into an X window manager.
Re:Robert X. Cringely (Score:5, Interesting)
Another way of looking at it is that he's saying that somebody could create a lot of value on top of the existing Linux platform by making a decent GUI/Windowing System, the same way that Apple did with OS X, and still have a viable commercial product out of it, one which would be better than Windows in many ways, which I agree with as well. Again, clearly makes no sense from a business perspective, but the idea isn't as totally without merit as you make it seem.
Parent
He also Lied about having a PHD at Stanford. (Score:3, Informative)
One more thing, his "Killer App" of a digital hub is simply based on Steve Job's quote [macrumors.com] made just last month. But, personally, I don't think Cringely is on the right path. Jobs has said before that the TV and computer shouldn't merge, and Job's idea of Digital Hub has been iTunes, iDVD etc, not directly interacting with your home appliances.
Joseph Elwell.
Re:Robert X. Cringely (Score:3, Informative)
BUT A *REALLY* FUCKING STUPID ONE! The kind that tend to destroy your reputation instantly.
Does anyone not agree?
Sort of like using vulgar language in a written article or post? I mean, come now. Colorful words as these merely server to remind one of the schoolyard!
I can almost hear the balls bouncing on the asphault...
Re:Robert X. Cringely (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Robert X. Cringely (Score:4, Informative)
An open-source clone, fsv, is also available on SourceForge [sourceforge.net].
Parent
Apple != Tablet (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Apple != Tablet (Score:5, Informative)
Except that onemorething.com is a parody site and not actually steve jobs' web-log.
This is from the horse's mouth, a transcript [blogspot.com] of an interview between Steve Jobs and Walt Mossberg at "all things digital". (sorry I couldn't find the article on a "good" source (ie: google news) so go easy on it.
Parent
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
"There are no plans to stop pushing tablets. When Microsoft first started out, people didn't want tablets. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this."
Parent
Re:Apple != Tablet (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Linux in the marketplace (Score:3, Insightful)
That was never a problem in the first place. It is that Microsoft has threatened to revoke the ability of retailers to carry computers with Windows alongside with other OSes (i.e. stop selling Linux, or you can't sell Windows). Most retailers balked, since most of their business is Windows, they'd rather not have to worry about losing a large portion of their customers for the sake of those that want Linux.
worrys about tablets (Score:5, Informative)
But, how do you protect that screen? Something big like that just seems to be a huge scratch and scuff collector. Is this the case or am I just missing something obvious again?
Re:worrys about tablets (Score:3, Insightful)
Paper and pen(cil) are very good for taking sketch-like notes. If you'd just convert raster sketch-notes taken on a tablet to MathML (e.g.) anyway, you might as well do the same thing working from paper. In other words, there's no extra convenience in recording notes digitally if you're going to do a computationally difficult/impossible transform on them before it matters whether they're digital.
I think any tablet would have to have an extremely good equation-recognition system before most people would fi
Re:worrys about tablets (Score:3, Informative)
The best tablets have a rotating screen. At first glance, they look just like a slim laptop, complete with keyboard. Unlock the screen, rotate it 180deg, and shut the clamshell, and now you have a tablet. There's nothing you can do about protecting the screen while you're using it, but when transporting and storing it you'd ha
Re:worrys about tablets (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, but a small hi-res camera attached to your notebook/tablet PC,
and you don't even have to bother sketching.
Parent
Should have happened years ago. (Score:5, Interesting)
Wishful thinking, and I'm wishing it too. The problem is a base. Tablet PCs haven't been doing so hot (at least not in my neighborhood). The only major interest that I've seen on a large scale has been that of FedEx looking to implement them with their current DADS system, in addition to maintaining open communications with cellular towers. I'm a FedEx dispatcher myself, so I'm kept abreast of what technologies we're planning on moving to in the future. Tablet PCs in the field will help keep us even more accurately up-to-date. Currently, our drivers can only transmit when in range of our larger towers (which are only in the cities), meaning that customers wanting updated tracking information on a package routed to a rural area just have to sit and wait until the driver is in range to transmit data confirming that he/she has indeed delivered that package. With properly equipped tablets, we're hoping to eliminate this problem with true real-time status updates.
What's curious is that, though I may have my head in the clouds, I've really not heard of any other major market for these things beyond novelty. The exception being the Apple rumor. Had apple had access to the technology in a financially feasable market (say 1994) I can absolutely see how ClarisWorks 4 could have dominated the word processing market of that day, and we'd have tablet PCs everywhere. As it stands now, I get the impression that people aren't quite sure what to do with these crazy things.
Damon,
Praise be.........To Google Cache (Score:5, Informative)
It's not much, but at least provides a "look" at one of their products.
-OZ
typo alert! (Score:5, Funny)
this:
OS like Windows CE
should read:
OS-like Windows CE
Not quite there yet (Score:5, Funny)
What's the use? / Creating a Market (Score:4, Insightful)
I honestly don't see the use in it, and instead I really see another try by engines of industry to create demand for a product noone really needs...
Hopefully someone can explain it to me, and this isn't just me turning 30...
Re:What's the use? / Creating a Market (Score:3, Insightful)
Companies that need to do inventory but do not have the funds or know-how to invest in barcode wireless scanners. They could use to a Tablet PC to instantly change inventory and update
Re:What's the use? / Creating a Market (Score:5, Informative)
- Taking notes. I am a student, and I find the tablet PC excellent for taking notes. I have the advantage of digital note taking (easy to manipulate, easy to store, easy to organize) with the advantages of paper notes (drawing diagrams, complex mathematical symbols easy to write). Moreover, MS's new OneNote application automatically records the lecture to
.wma, which I can replay on my mp3 player while I run (I suppose one could do the same thing with any other audio recorder, but OneNote is also the best note taking application, so it's nice that the recording feature is built in).
- Drawing. There are obvious drawbacks to drawing on the computer as opposed to pencil & paper, but there are a hell of a lot of advantages too. Undo buttons and layers are the most obvious. Unlike tablets that have to be connected to your computer, tablet PCs are mobile, allowing one to draw anywhere. What I'm really looking forward to are tablet PCs with transflective screens, so they'll be usable outside.
- Removes need for a PDA. My tablet is only 3 lbs, so while it is clearly bulkier and heavier than a Palm, it is easy enough to bring with me whenever I expect to need my schedule (I'm looking for a nice leather portfolio for it at the moment, that would make things even better). Unlike a PDA (or at least, unlike my old Palm III), it doesn't have to convert everything to text. So if you want to jot down a quick note, rather than painstakingly entering one letter at a time and correcting mistakes, you just use regular handwriting. So long as you can read your own handwriting, there's no need to ever convert it to text (though the recognition for cursive is pretty damn good, so long as you're writing dictionary words).
- Reading. I know someone above pooh-poohed the notion of using it as an e-book reader, but there's no doubt it's useful for that function. The fact that the display can be rotated is a tremendous benefit. It's just so much easier to read on a tall, narrow display than a wide, short display (this is why newspapers have columns). I'm not just talking about e-books either. Even reading websites offline is easier (surfing can be laborious, given slowness of text entry with the pen).
A tablet is probably a poor primary computer (one can use docking stations I suppose, but mine is only a 1 Ghz Centrino, not exactly blazing). I think that for students and artists, it's probably a better secondary computer than a laptop. For business folk who do lots of typing on the road, probably not so much (on the other hand, business folk who mainly review documents, check email, and take notes at conferences might be well served by a tablet).Parent
Parts just do not add up (Score:5, Insightful)
To me though none of these pieces add up. I can possibly see HD video feeds between components and even PC's being of some use - but to a tablet? HD resolution is going to be wasted on a tablet screen (at least at current DPI for LCD's).
Then once the video gets to the table - what then? A really large glorified remote control? Why would Apple have any interest in that?
In the article he even mentioned the quote from Jobs that I agree with 100% - computers need keyboards. I have zero desire to see a tablet from Apple, partly because I feel it would be a drain on them but also partly because I just can't see how such a device fits into anyones world other than sketch artists. I beta tested some kind of tablet PC long ago, and the device worked OK - but I was hard pressed to find good reasons to own one, and now I have a laptop which I find much handier.
Would an Apple tablet be cool? Possibly, but not in the same way the iPod or OSX is cool...
News.com report (Score:4, Informative)
The Helium 2100, from Staten Island, N.Y.-based manufacturer Element Computer, is a convertible PC with a sliding screen that can be positioned for use as a traditional notebook PC or folded down for use as a touch-screen tablet device. "
Source: http://news.com.com/2100-1005_3-5112309.html?tag=n efd_top
some whois info (Score:4, Funny)
"Domain name: ELEMENTCOMPUTER.COM
Administrative Contact:
Hjorleifsson, Mike mikeh@dtev.com"
OK, lets look here:
http://www.dtev.com
They are a bunch of Linux consultants.
Dtev.com Isn't slashdotted yet!
specs from web site (Score:3, Informative)
$999
Preconfigured Linux Tablet with Lycoris Desktop/LX
Key features
14.1-inch XGA (1024 x 768) Touch Panel active matrix display
Perfect 2-in-1 convertible design, Notebook and Tablet PC
Processor: 1 GHz VIA? Antaur
Stylus included
256MB Installed Memory: up to 1 GB of DDR266 200-pin DRAM via two sockets
30GB Installed Hard Drive: up to 80 GB
Keyboard: 85-key keyboard with Extended Function Keys
O/S: Powered by Desktop/LX Tablet Edition
Battery: up to 3 hours battery life
Wireless: internal 802.11b (11 MBps) (OPTIONAL)
Ports:
2x USB 1.1/2.0;
1x type II PCMCIA/CardBus slot;
1x IrDA 1.1 FiR;
1x stereo headphone jack;
1x RJ11 for K56flex V90 modem;
1x RJ45 for 10/100 LAN;
1x external CRT port;
4-in-1 Flash Card Reader SD/MMC/MS/SM
Here come the puns (Score:3)
Mac Tablet PC? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think most manufacturers are having problems with table PCs because they are trying to make them keyboardless laptops. It will never happen. Why? I hate to write. So do many others and true handwriting technology is so processor intensive you can't currently pack it into a handheld. I'd rather type. I can type much faster that I can write and, well, you see where I'm going with this.
If I were going to deliver a "tablet" PC, I'd make one like this:
Basically, it would simply be a touch-sensitive dumb terminal for a "central server" or master machine on my desk or in my closet. I'd want to be able to "VNC" to my desktop or open one of several "published" X-window apps with a finger tap. Give me a browser, email client (could be a browser), basic word processing (all running off my central server) and perhaps a small collection of rdp and terminal service clients - perhaps also running off my desktop. With a simple GUI to configure a connection to one (or more?) parent hosts and little or no built-in brains, this could be made dirt cheap (all the processing is handled by the server) - you are paying mostly for the touchscreen - which doesn't have to be very big. I'd pay a couple hundred bucks a piece or so to have one sitting on my coffee table or in my bedroom.Remember, this isn't supposed to be a PC in it's own right. It's supposed to be an extension of my main PC. 90% of what I want to do with a "tablet" is monitor something or do a quick browse without having to run into the other room. If you try to make it be a computer in-and-of-itself, it will be prohibitively expensive, heavy, hot and large.
If I could take my Palm(tm), add low-power, built-in wireless networking, stretch the screen to about 10"x6" and add an Xwindows/VNC client, I'd be getting pretty close to having what I, personally, want in a tablet.
Just my opinion, but this comes from many time when I've caught myself wishing I could just have my monitor follow me from room to room.
Re:Mac Tablet PC? (Score:3, Informative)
Ten inch for $750, fifteen inch $960. of course it's for use with windows XP (think remote desktop connection), but the thing is here today, and was brought to you by a large company even. The very item you want. Too bad it's windows-centric, but one wonders if you could somehow haxor a VNC client onto it.
It just might make sense... (Score:4, Interesting)
The problems are (a) it would suck power like a mofo, so you'd have to plug it in, (b) the wireless range limits just how useful it could be before you'd have to start adding expensive, power-sucking, stuff like a hard drive to it, and (c) it you're doing a lot of keyboard entry, you'd want to hook up a keyboard, and probably sit down with this thing propped up like a conventional monitor.
Re:Now this is just personal opinion (Score:5, Interesting)
So far most tablet PCs have included a keyboard, which is nuts if you've ever used a Pocket PC's handwriting recognition -- the technology is there, just give it to us in a larger form factor (with a 2 GHz processor, 512Meg Ram, a hard drive, and a real OS, not Windows CE). They're also way too expensive, a feature I'm afraid Apple would likely copy.
Parent
Re:Now this is just personal opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now, the market is oriented toward overpriced, notebook replacement devices, with hi-res screens, bright backlighting, extra bulk for the fold-under keyboard, and *shudder* Windows as the OS. I recently got a Sony Clie NX60 off of eBay. It works ok for what I want (need to buy a wifi adapter card though), but ideally it would have a 640x480 screen, the size of a writing tablet (roughly 6"x8".) I would have gotten one of those RCA REB1200 ebooks, but the proprietary OS and lack of programs/wireless was a big downer
Parent
Re:Now this is just personal opinion (Score:4, Informative)
I wouldn't exactly say that. Windows XP Tablet PC Edition IS full fledged Windows XP. Sure, the PIII-M in most tablets are a step behind the Pentium-M, but otherwise the hardware specs are comparable to an ultraportable (3lb range) laptop, which barely a year ago still used PIII-M's.
Parent
Re:Just a large palm pilot (Score:5, Interesting)
**What's missing has been the killer app, and what kept a killer app from appearing was a lack of hardware support, which I believe will be over soon**
killer app hasn't come because there hasn't been hardware deployed widely(i take 'hardware support' as this, lack of market), but wouldn't a killer app be the thing that would enable that hardware to sell.. so that there would be enough of them deployed for somebody to make that killer app..
well personally i'd have the 'killer app' for myself, but that would need it to be water proof.
what's that you ask, what would be my killer app? reading while in bath(or while showering, but that would waste water and that would be bad karma right? or maybe while in a rain). really, the places where you couldn't use a laptop are pretty much the places where you can't have the fragility(and being afraid of water) of a laptop. if it was STURDY, and liquidproof there would be lots of uses for it.
well, of course if you were of disgusting mind(such as myself) you could imagine using it for pron while at there..
Parent
Re:Questions about Lycoris (Score:3, Informative)
-bZj