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State Of The Simputer

Posted by timothy on Wed Sep 17, 2003 07:59 AM
from the intention-attrition dept.
2br02b writes "Readers might recall the Simputer (Simple, Inexpensive, Multilingual Computer) whose story Slashdot has been following over the past few years, including its release in October 2002 and most recently the Scientific American article in November. Rediff.com has an informative overview on the status of what was introduced as a low-cost computer for the poor to be sold for under Rs 10000 ($200). Of the two companies that have been given licences, one has yet to put the product on the market while the other is only looking at bulk sales at prices from Rs 12000 to Rs 20000 ($400). Only between 1500 and 2000 Simputers are out on the market."
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story
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  • by InterruptDescriptorT (531083) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:01AM (#6984790) Homepage
    HOw about we concentrate on basic human needs like food, clean, running water and shelter before we go doling out handhelds to people?

    I'm not at all against technology education and maximizing its use wherever possible, but there truly are some things that must take priority here.
    • argueable, but... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by fons (190526)
      You could argue that the poor could use these cheap computers to help them get food, water etc.

      For example: If you give poor farmers in Africa, India, ... computers, they could use them to improve there farming and harvest more food or to make a better profit selling their harvest.
      This is much better than just giving them food. Computers could help solve THE PROBLEM instead of just curing the symptoms.

      However, there are many other problems:
      - Lot's of poor people can't read/write.
      - If they can read/write,
      • Re:argueable, but... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by GoofyBoy (44399)
        >If you give poor farmers in Africa, India, ... computers, they could use them to improve there farming and harvest more food or to make a better profit selling their harvest.

        Of course, because behind every third world poor farmer is a computer programming genius who can just program C/C++ his way into better and efficent ways of growing things.

        Next on freshmeat.net: GNU/RainMiracle.
        • by KDan (90353) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:35AM (#6985039) Homepage
          I think quite possibly what he meant is that they can use the computers to learn about ways of improving their farming, to learn to dig wells, etc.

          Knowledge is power, as they say...

          Daniel
          • by JonTurner (178845) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @09:53AM (#6985663) Journal
            >>They can use the computers to learn about ways of improving their farming...

            So what's wrong with a photocopied pamphlet or even a book? Hundreds, perhaps thousands of booklets could be printed for the cost of one of these computers.

            If the goal is the distribution of information, this is the wrong tool for the job.
            • Great. BTW, what is the cost of printing the entire internet in pamphlet form 1000 times and distributing it to poor Indian farmers? Unless you plan to know in advance all of the information they want to know, how are you going to print these pamphlets?

              Besides, even if the printing is cheap (not a given), distributing tons of printed material in areas with poor infastructure is problematic at best.
      • by perly-king-69 (580000) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:56AM (#6985215)

        For example: If you give poor farmers in Africa, India, ... computers, they could use them to improve there farming and harvest more food or to make a better profit selling their harvest.

        3rd world farmers suffer more from trade barriers, dumping by the US and Europe, beauracracy and wars than a lack of efficiency

    • The POINT is that this computer will enable them to better provide for themselves. Learn about farming methods, medicine, alternitive housing ideas, &c.

      It's the whole "Give a man a fish/Teach a man to fish" idea.

      M@
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:25AM (#6984962)
      This is such an age old troll that it is not funny. You can actually post it to every article and slashdot and be on topic. Why buy a new iBook when we could stop world hunger? Why upgrade your kernel when you could be in Africa building houses? There is always something better than we can be doing with our time. If you are so altruistic then what are you doing posting on slashdot?

      This is a device that is meant to help close the digital divide. You take for granted how much information is at your fingertips and what advantages there are to having that information. If you are looking for a job where are you going to start? Probably on Monster or HotJobs or some other site. Send out some resumes by email that you typed in your word processor. Now take away your computer and try to do the old fashioned way. Type your resume on a typewriter, pay to have it photocopied, flip through a newspaper and walk door to door only to have them reject you because you don't have computer experience.

      Not everything is about helping the poorest of the poor. There are a lot more people out there who need some help too.
    • [This is recycled from something I posted about a year ago.]

      Alice is a shrewd 17 year old who plans to build on her investment in a Simputer and a cell phone until she achieves world domination. With the optimism of youth, she figures that will happen when she's about 25. After all, she needs two years to pay off the Co-op loan she took to get the things, and then she needs to really learn how read and write, too. That might take a little while. But she's willing to put off starting her family until she'

    • HOw about we concentrate on basic human needs like food, clean, running water and shelter before we go doling out handhelds to people? I'm not at all against technology education and maximizing its use wherever possible, but there truly are some things that must take priority here.

      "we"? Where do you get this "we" from? The Simputer is manufactured by a for-profit corporation in India. Are you saying that they (a bunch of tech guys, obviously) should have gone into the food water and housing business? Or

  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess 200-400$ aren't that little for a poor Indian. Apart from that fact that I have to wonder whatfor people living in some fuckin slum need a computer!
    • by bmongar (230600) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:08AM (#6984847)
      Apart from that fact that I have to wonder whatfor people living in some fuckin slum need a computer!
      How about to educate themselves and get out of the slum. I came from a poor rural area not realy a slum. My parents overextended their budget buing a C64 for us when I was in junior high. Many people saw that as a waste of money. My parents saw that as an investment. It paid off. I'm a programmer now.

      • Have you've seen the pictures of this computer?

        The thing doesn't even have a keyboard. I doubt that it even has end-user friendly programming language. And I can get an old desktop computer for cheaper.

        Not sure how much serious real-world skills from a thing that looks like an over-glorified GameBoy.
      • So then, every poor kid that gets a computer is gonna be a programmer? I kinda' doubt that. Computers are still largely uneeded luxuries for most people on this planet.
        • Computers are still largely uneeded luxuries for most people on this planet.

          In that case, why are you using one? Computers are excellent means of communication. You do understand that with a computer, you can access all kinds of information you couldn't get otherwise? You know, not everyone has a library near his/her house, and not everyone can read, especially in 3rd world countries? A computer can efficiently solve both of these problems.

          You have to realize that the 3rd world is very different. A
          • I was in Malawi and Zambia a couple weeks ago, and it was funny to be driving in a beat up 1970's japanise minibus down a dirt road past mud huts, and have the african next to me answer his cellphone.
      • Outsourcing bonanza! (Score:3, Interesting)

        by JonTurner (178845)
        >> have to wonder whatfor people living in some ... slum need a computer! ...
        >>I'm a programmer now.

        Enjoy it while it lasts. I can't help but wonder how long before your company outsources your job to some kid with a Simputer willing to work for 35 cents a day? Ouch!
        • by Viol8 (599362) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @09:01AM (#6985257)
          "Poor people are generally poor because they are either dumb, lazy, or both"

          What a clueless moron you are. That may well be true in the affluent west where if you work hard
          you can better yourself but in some countries the children don't get a chance to be educated before they're out in the fields helping their parents
          grow food or even supporting their brothers and sisters after their parents have died from disease or war!

          "They just want the government to hand them welfare and be done with it. "

          Yeah , the welfare systems in africa and india are known to be the best in the world right!
          Jesus , get a clue you insular dick!
    • by Corpus_Callosum (617295) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:16AM (#6984902) Homepage
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess 200-400$ aren't that little for a poor Indian. Apart from that fact that I have to wonder whatfor people living in some **** slum need a computer!

      I'm not sure how it works in India, but it is probably (please correct me if I'm wrong) similar to the Philippines where the average college graduate makes about $300 / month.

      If you assume that the average college graduate in the US makes $3k - $4k / month, then a fair comparison would be a $3500 computer in the U.S. to a $300 computer in the Philippines (or perhaps, India). From an expense point of view, it is likely to be affordable (although certainly a luxury).

      But to imagine that these people do not wish to communicate, learn and reach out to the world through the Internet is fairly ignorant. In my experience with families from the third world, a computer (and even a broadband connection, which can be had for pennies on our dollars) is more desirable than a telephone or television.

      My conclusion? The simputer may not fit the bill, but the need and economics are right on.
    • by I8TheWorm (645702) <jeff.jeffreyhamby@com> on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:27AM (#6984984) Homepage Journal
      What's the point when for $200 the "poor" could by a Linux pc from Wal-Mart [walmart.com].

      Let's not discount the fact that the per capita GDP in India is $2,540, which would make a $200 PC in India worth $2960.63 in US dollars (US per capita GDP = $37,600).

      Some help that is...
      • by *weasel (174362) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @09:44AM (#6985597)
        so you mean that indians would be paying the same relative part of their salary on a computer now that boomers spent in the 70s and 80s?

        i would say its pretty clear that many gen-X-ers got quite a bit of a technological leg-up from their boomer parents overextending their salary similarly.

        the sale of cheap computing to underdeveloped countries is a Good Thing (tm).

        sure, they need improvements in other basic areas too - but not everyone who wants to help can work on the same project (too many cooks), and some people just don't have expertise or experience in providing and distributing clean water, replenishing spent soil, or extending the electrical infrastructure.

        does it make it a less noble goal to bring computing prices down? to provide an educational and informational medium to these people?

        indians in particular living in the world's oldest democracy, would certainly tangibly benefit from being more educated voters.
        the broader online marketplace also provides tangible benefits, even for the underprivileged (who benefit more from better prices/competition).

        if anything, that money makes more sense for them now than it did when the boomers bought into it for X-ers. The internet adds exponentially to the value of a home computer.

        not all of their children will grow up to be programmers or engineers, but there are tangible benefits to be had. yes, it requires some proactivity, and yes - not everyone in india (or any other underdeveloped nation) needs/would actually benefit from a PC.

        but if only a dozen, or a hundred take the opportunity and turn it to their will - that'd make it a worthwhile cause.
              • Once again, for much less, they could have a PC tied to that modem line, running linux, and have much more capability. I think it's throwing money in the wrong direction to help people.

                You're missing the aspects of this device that make it more attractive than a used PC plunked down in a corner. The whole concept of using a simple palm-like device makes it low-power, rugged and ultra-portable.

                How were you planning on powering that old PC that sucks 30 watts of power, when there's no electrical hookup fo
    • I agree that $200 - $400 is quite a bit for a lower middle class person, let alone a poor indian. However, the poor do "need" a computer. If not today, tomorrow. At least shared computers, like those in public libraries in US.

      The access to latest information (and educational resources) can potentially open the gateway out of the slums.

      S
    • 10 seconds of thinking: MIT Open Course Ware, so they can make a way out for themselves

      Just a thought...

  • by Lumpy (12016) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:04AM (#6984820) Homepage
    So now pricing it up there with laptops and high end handhelds will get it selling? Wasn't the whole point of the simputer as computing for the masses and not the uber-rich? (Yes kiddies, you are considered Uber rich to 4/5ths the worlds' population.)

    Another great idea tanked by a bunch of PHB's
  • with my Automated Bead Array Computational Unit System. This can be made much more cheaply, the batteries alst forever, and it never crashes!
    • >>with my Automated Bead Array Computational Unit System. This can be made much more cheaply, the batteries alst forever, and it never crashes!

      Is this compatible with Dirt-And-Stick 1.0? I've been looking to upgrade. I hate losing all my documents every time it rains...
  • by chrimage (701619) * on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:06AM (#6984833) Homepage Journal
    isn't there a better way to provide computing technology to the third-world masses? perhaps someone should start a program for donating old, outdated computers for the good of poorer nations. (if there isn't already one)
  • What a shame (Score:3, Insightful)

    by McPLUR (586375) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:09AM (#6984855)
    To be so close to having a computer accessible by all. It is hard to estimate what the implications could have been if everyone, every where had access to a computer. But of course the inventors yet again failed to factor in corporate greed.
  • Utopian ideals... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ratface (21117) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:10AM (#6984859) Homepage Journal
    An idea like this sounds fantastic - but is riddled with potential problems.

    If they produce something with low capabilities, but a low, low price, then they will be accused of producing underpowered rubbish.

    As soon as you start to increase the potential of the platform, the costs start to rise until you have an elitist product that the intended market cannot afford.

    There *may* be a happy medium somewhere, but the edvil is in the details of finding it. In the consumerist marketplace we have in the West, production prices are already pushed as low as possible. Squeezing out extra pennies in production is almost impossible. The potential is there though to reduce prices through the marketing and adminitration side of things (pay no fat-cat salaries to the sales & management departments), but then again the product quickly becomes unfashionable and therefore undesirable.

    I would love to see such a product to succeed, but it's a hell of an uphill stuggle!
    • Their biggest mistake was the color display. You can get more display area cheaper if you use greyscale, which is sufficient for people in developing countries - hell, it's sufficient for 99% of what people do with computers in this country.
  • by vudufixit (581911) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:13AM (#6984876)
    If that's where our tech support and software development jobs are going, then their wages will go up, and an increasing number of them will be able to afford the simputer, right? As for those knee-jerkers who say, "let's provide food, water, etc. first" please remember that this is being marketed and sold by a private company that has no obligation to address those sorts of social problems. If anything, increasing a country's tech literacy helps increase the general prosperity
  • by NDPTAL85 (260093) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:14AM (#6984885)
    They fucked up. $400 is way too expensive for a poor indian person to afford.

    "Well, it's not a cheap computer.

    Its proponents have since discarded the buzzword -- 'cheap computer' -- that brought the Simputer into the limelight.

    "We are not making a cheap computer. We are making a sophisticated device that will make computing possible for everyone," declares Professor Manohar."

    What a crock of bull. How is computing possible for "everyone" when "most" Indians can't afford to spend $400 on a PDA?
  • Um... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by GoofyBoy (44399)

    >people were interchanging polarities while inserting batteries and battery contacts were coming loose due to rough handling.

    The UI interface better be really really simple.

    And yes I think this is a dumb idea. Just give them old desktop computers. There is no reason for portability to be simple, inexpensive or multilingual.
  • Needs a few changes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by heironymouscoward (683461) <heironymouscowar ... OTcom minus poet> on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:26AM (#6984977) Journal
    1. AA batteries, not AAA or fixed rechargeable Li-ION. AAA have a terribly low capacity (~450mAh compared to up to 1900mAh for AA).

    2. Cheap and robust external power supply. Batteries are expensive.

    2. B&W screen, for godsake. Color is luxury, make a high-contrast large, protected B&W screen that can show decent amounts of information.

    3. Little chiclet keyboard that plugs in to a mini-USB slot. Something like the old Spectrum keyboards, cheap, nasty, unbreakable.

    That would make it cheaper and more useful. Imagine a computer you'd happily give to an 10-year old, no matter if it breaks.

    Lastly, I'd add bluetooth because it's a tiny extra cost, only a few $, and provides unbreakable networking and connectivity better than any physical connection, and make the whole thing run on a stripped-down embedded Linux.
  • by NineNine (235196) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:33AM (#6985019) Homepage
    Considering the fact that 16% of the planet doesn't even make $400 a year [globalrichlist.com], this is still ridiculously expensive.
  • by TheVidiot (549995) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @08:43AM (#6985100) Homepage
    It's strange how SimCity, SimCoaster, SimSafari and the Sims all were priced normally, and yet SimPuter appears to be behind schedule and way overpriced.

    Perhaps moving development offshore isn't the cost saver it's been promoted as.

    :)
  • by mritunjai (518932) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @09:06AM (#6985299) Homepage
    ... it was loaded with goodies. Quoting from the article- "Our Simputer comes with a smart card reader. It has a USB master that can host different kind of peripherals. It has an in-built modem, GSM/CDMA data interface, GPS receiver and the equivalent of a 400 MHZ Celeron [comment: its a SA proc]. It is a power packed machine," says Samyeer Metrani, group manager (embedded systems), Encore Technologies. Probably they needed to include the goodies for special purposes, but somehow they got in the "basic" model where many of these weren't even needed. Comeon... even Palm and Zaurus don't have GPS receiver and CDMA+GSM interface, buildin modem and a 400(!) MHz processor. The cost can surely be brought down, but then they would be competing with established players. So they chose the alternative route to play in niche markets with feature packed versions... and its very well known that benefits of economies of scale are usually not available to niche players!
  • by cyber_rigger (527103) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @09:14AM (#6985369) Homepage Journal

    The Simputer is a neat idea
    but who is going to buy them
    if you can already get something cheaper/faster
    with more storage?

    Here is a 1.2 Duron with a 20 gig drive for $200 US.
    [walmart.com]
    http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product _id=2138700&cat=86796&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3 944%3A3951%3A41937%3A86796

    Of course if you have no place to plug it in
    then you're hosed.
  • by pamri (251945) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @09:51AM (#6985655) Homepage
    Not long ago, the guys from encore gave a talk at our local lug on the simputer and from what i could gleam, they now seem to be moving towards customizing the simputer for special sectors like Manufacturing cos., etc., instead of relying too much on it's original purpose to fund themselves. You can find slides from the talks here. [linux-bangalore.org]
  • by gordie (139287) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @10:10AM (#6985840) Homepage
    IIRC the whole point of the simputer, was to produce a cheap multi-language system that would work reliably in third world conditions i.e. areas with unreliable or no local power, high levels of dust etc. for sale to poor governments, NGA's etc. for use in educational programs. The ideal setting is one set up in the "mud hut" one room school in a small rural village. The teacher uses it for classes, both for the village children and adults. Yes our obsolete systems could be donated, but if they sit unused because of overheating and dust or a burned out power supply, due to the poor local electrical system etc., then all we have done, is save space in our own landfill.
  • cheap linux pc (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mehtars (655511) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @11:04AM (#6986297)
    Currently in india, as soon as a community gets electric power, the first thing they buy is a TV.
    The tv becomes their gateway to the rest of the world-- a one way feed.
    if you really want, you should build a computer that costs 150$ linux machine and uses the tv as a monitor-- i think that would be a more ideal solution. Basically, if walmart can make linux machines and sell them at $200, it shouldn't be that much harder to bring the price down by 50.
    in cost in rupees, that would be 7500/- cheaper than the simputer.
    • Heard of 'Sinclair' ZX Spectrum +? Yes, it was sold in India too, used to cost about Rs 14,000, and yes, you needed to plug in to the TV. And oh, *all* apps in it were open-source, and if I'm not wrong, it actually had GUI even before IBM PC's did (this app called 'Artist II')

      There are, of course, many reasons why it flopped, but here's one reason why it flopped in my household:- the Spectrum + had to fight for TV space along with daily soaps, news and cartoons, among other things. You know which ones won

  • Pictures (Score:4, Informative)

    by $exyNerdie (683214) on Wednesday September 17 2003, @11:14AM (#6986402) Homepage Journal
    I know ya'll like pictures and here are some (before the final outer design):

    More recent picture [jetro.go.jp]
    Picture 1 [jetro.go.jp]

    Picture 2 [jetro.go.jp]

    Picture 3 [jetro.go.jp]

    Picture 4 [jetro.go.jp]

    Picture 5 [jetro.go.jp]

    Use of Simputer for Spot Billing of Electricity Metering [picopeta.com]

    More Case [picopeta.com]

    Studies
  • by Bill Kendrick (19287) <bill@newbreedsoftware.com> on Wednesday September 17 2003, @03:39PM (#6988860) Homepage
    The Peninsula Linux Users Group (PenLUG [penlug.rog]) will be hosting a talk on the Simputer at their September 25th meeting down near Redwood City, in the SF Bay Area.

    The same speaker will be visiting the Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD [lugod.org]) on October 20th [lugod.org], near Sacramento, Calif.
    • > I don't think there is much point in this.. a mobile phone could encapsulate most of this functionality for a quater the price. Simon.

      That's true for us rich westerners.

      Fancy smartphones are sold to us at a loss by the telcos because they assume (and it's a risk) that they'll recoup the cost as we use data services
      over a fixed term contract with inclusive rental charges.

      Ask Vodafone how much a P800 would cost with no contract and you might find the Simputer starts looking like good value for money.