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Review Of Upcoming Projection Keyboards

Posted by timothy on Tue Jan 21, 2003 05:59 AM
from the easier-than-fingernail-implants dept.
malpern writes "I've written a review of upcoming virtual keyboards based on published reports. There are pictures, descriptions, and details for each of the four major manufactures (Virtual Devices, Developer VKB, Canesta, and Senseboard Technologies)."
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  • by t0qer (230538) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:06AM (#5125697) Homepage Journal
    If the moment I turn one of these laser keyboards on my cat will go nuts?
  • Release timescale (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ZenJabba1 (472792) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:11AM (#5125709) Homepage Journal
    Some of those toys were meant to be released last year, but I have not seen them available. I really could use the wireless/bluetooth one at the end, as my space I have available for my computers is being reduced by another human being born into the world.

    Anyway my *icrosoft ergo keyboard is looking very tattered and worn out!
    • by Proc6 (518858) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:25AM (#5125761)
      I dont think these will help your space solution. They all seem to still require about the same size flat smooth surface as a mini-keyboard to operate. The only advantage is less to carry (ie. good for PDA's). Not to mention, if you're a fan of an ergo keyboard, boy will YOU be in for a suprise when you're banging away on a non-forgiving hard-wood or formica surface. You'll be Remo Williams in no time!
  • What about ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by whacker9 (638854) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:12AM (#5125713)
    the feel of keyboards which is important too. I don't think this will pick up especially the senseboard ones (the rest atleast have a keyboard image). Type into thin air !! People around may take you for being psychotic or something. Plus I would really like someone to do this: "Now where is that Enter key?" heh heh heh.....
    • by Travoltus (110240) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:33AM (#5125779) Journal
      We used to use noisy typewriters.
      Now it is the traditional keyboard's time to face replacement.

      It'll take a whole generation, no doubt, of people who were raised up on projection keyboards, before it becomes accepted the way keyboards now are.

      It's a radical new concept and we technocrats should at least have some kind of open mind about it.

      Although there are nagging issues.. such as whether or not those keystrokes will be nore easily interfered with or intercepted...
      • Maybe. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by jetpack (22743) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:49AM (#5125815) Homepage
        It's a radical new concept and we technocrats should at least have some kind of open mind about it.

        But many of us technochrats still dislike the feel of laptop keyboards because they don't respond quite "right". I suspect these new virtual keyboards will take quite a bit of getting used to and won't be adpoted very quickly.

        Just a guess, of course.

        • Re:Maybe. (Score:4, Interesting)

          by DiSKiLLeR (17651) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:04AM (#5125842) Homepage Journal
          Except the Titanium PowerBook G4 Keyboard.

          That has to be the damn best keyboard on the planet. I just cannot get enough of it!

          I wish i could plug this keyboard into my desktop PC at work.

          I just can't put up with normal keyboards anymore. Nothing is as nice and sexy as the powerbook keyboard.

          D.
  • Ack (Score:5, Funny)

    by houseofmore (313324) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:13AM (#5125717) Homepage
    That'll never fly in school. Who wasn't getting in shit all the time for drumming on the desk eh?
    • That'll never fly in school. Who wasn't getting in shit all the time for drumming on the desk eh?

      But now you'll be able to have an excuse for it that should distract the class for at least five minutes while everyone checks out your new toy! Pull it out when you want a break. :)

  • Pain and Suffering (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sholden (12227) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:13AM (#5125718) Homepage
    Such keyboards would be great with PDAs and other portable devices.

    But I suspect that using one constantly (such as for you desktop machine at work) would produce lots of pain and suffering. Banging your fingers on the probably hard solid no-give surface of a desk all day probably wouldn't be great fun. Stopping your fingers before they hit the desk would be a quick route to RSI land... I guess you could put somethign soft where your fingers will hit, but then why not just use a nice clickity-clackity keyboard...

    On the plus side, it'd make those old games where you have to push two keys in quick succession over and over again (Summer Games for example) much easier.

    On that note, did anyone else build a 'joystick' for the C64 out of 2 nails some wire and a screw driver, just so they could get really fast times in the 100 meter sprint on that game?

  • by httpamphibio.us (579491) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:14AM (#5125723)
    I hope you don't actually have to touch the surface that it's being projected on. A couple weeks back somebody posted a link to a modified typewriter keyboard to use on a computer because his wife's fingers reacted badly to the jarring motion of using a touchtype keyboard. Imagine how jarring it would be to repeatedly slam your fingers against such a hard surface...
    • by Mr_Silver (213637) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:58AM (#5125831)
      I hope you don't actually have to touch the surface that it's being projected on.

      I just made myself look really stupid in the office here by pretending I had one of these keyboards.

      What did it prove? Well apart from the fact that no-one noticed, this might actually be better than a keyboard.

      Go on, try it. Pretend you have one of them laser keyboards and type a few words on the desk. Notice how lightly you type? Now hit a couple of keys on your keyboard with the same pressure and notice that you don't get anything.

      In fact, as long as you don't have to hammer the table (i doubt it), it'll probably be better for you as you won't be hitting the "keys" as hard.

      Also don't forget that you won't have to raise your hands at the wrist quite so much as you do for a keyboard.

  • Finally! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kwoo (641864) <kjwcode@NOSpAm.gmail.com> on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:17AM (#5125733) Homepage Journal

    I have been waiting for something like this for a long time now. I have keyboard preferences that many people deem odd (Sun 3 keyboard, QWERTY layout, essentially), and this looks like the answer to my problem.

    I also like that at least one of the devices will have RS232-C output. That will make connection to older devices a lot easier, and drivers easy to write.

    Does anyone have any idea when these will hit the Canadian market? Sometimes we lag behind the US market, and other times we get it a week or two early.

  • RSI Maybe (Score:4, Interesting)

    by BlackHawk-666 (560896) <ivan.hawkes@mac.com> on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:17AM (#5125734) Homepage
    You would develop some pretty nasty RSI issues if you used this a lot...but who's going to do that. I think the purpose of the technology is to allow you to bang out a quick (and irrelevent) SlashDot comment while on the move. This would be great on the train home from work for example. You could reply to all your email of the day in otherwise unused time - then spend the 30 minutes you normally take to email people with your family instead.
  • Thin and dated (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ydna (32354) <.ten.regews. .ta. .werdna.> on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:18AM (#5125736) Homepage
    The article seems to be a little dated. There's not publication date, but several references are almost a year old. Details are thin, but honest for a product that's yet to see the light of day.
  • by httpamphibio.us (579491) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:18AM (#5125738)
    I'd like to see something like this where you could switch between keyboard layouts like QWERTY, Dvorak, Typematrix, Kinesis, etc...
    • I'd like to see something like this where you could switch between keyboard layouts like QWERTY, Dvorak, Typematrix, Kinesis, etc...

      Frankly, I'd settle for being able to switch Control and CapsLock. Perhaps move Escape and Backspace, back-tick and tilde.

      Deleting/disabling keys would be nice, too. I didn't check any of the pictures too much, but it might be nice to be able to disable/delete the arrow keys if they get in the way.

    • by drunkmonk (241978) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:42AM (#5125802) Homepage
      Not only mutiple layouts, but also multiple languages. There's nothing worse than being stuck in Moscow and having to use a Cyrillic keyboard, even if you touch-type it's distracting. With this you could, in theory, just switch right back to English.
  • A couple of issues (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Pastey (577467) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:22AM (#5125747)
    There are a few things that I think would become annoying very quickly about projection keyboards.

    The first would be the lack of tactile response. After all, your desktop or any other hard surface would become uncomfortable after just a few minutes IMHO.

    The second would be the lack of any position designators - i.e. the 'f' and 'j' keys. Most 10 fingered typers probably don't even think about it anymore, but it's very easy to lose your place without them. I suspect this would become very annoying if taking notes in class during a lecture or in a business meeting.

    As far as a good portable keyboard for a PDA, my money is on the new Stowaway XT [thinkoutside.com]. It's been getting really [the-gadgeteer.com] good [bargainpda.com] reviews/previews [visorcentral.com].

    Anyone been lucky enough to play around with one yet?

    • by Boiotos (139179) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:53AM (#5125961) Homepage
      Your second point is a good one: I need something to keep those index fingers properly located. It seems to me, though, that a 70mm square patch with reusable adhesive on one side and a rough surface on the other would do the trick nicely. You'd stick them where the 'f' and 'j' keys are projected. 3M would give away six of them with the keyboard dealy; to buy more you'd go to Office Depot and pay through the nose :-)
  • by hcdejong (561314) <acme AT xmsnet DOT nl> on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:23AM (#5125752)

    i.e. what happens when one finger taps a key that is in the shadow of another finger? The review doesn't mention this.

    • From this [sciam.com] Scientific American article on it a while back:

      The collection of distances from the array of pixels provides a 3-D map of the area scanned. Moreover, this device can survey its surroundings more than 50 times every second. Like the pattern projector, the infrared light stays close to the surface. The sensor's view can get blocked if a user hits two keys at once that are exactly in line from the sensor. That happens rarely. But if it does, the keyboard's software makes the shift key "sticky," so even if it gets blocked by a finger on the E, the keyboard will interpret it as the two keys hit together.

  • Obvious problem (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bertok (226922) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:25AM (#5125756)
    I seriously doubt anyone could use these at full-speed, because there is no tactile feelback! The whole point of touch-typing is to type by feel, not by reading the keys. Poking at the keys one at a time is possibly worse than handwriting recognition speeds, and vastly inferior to speech recognition. I pity the company that invested $20 million into this useless novelty item.
  • by ColmanReilly (632586) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:25AM (#5125759)
    He hasn't used any of these, so it doesn't quite count as a review. Has anyone seen any of these devices work? So far I can't think of any actual hands-on reviews of them.
  • Feel & screens (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Malfourmed (633699) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:25AM (#5125760) Homepage
    I've tried typing into the air, or onto a flat surface. It's weird. Good keyboards depend a lot on the responsiveness of the keys - the feel. Like the old solid but noisy clickety-clack IBM keyboards or (my personal favourite) the almost noiseless, light (as in "lightness of touch", not as in "light emitting diode") Honeywells.

    Still, I'm excited by this technology. Now someone needs to marry it up with a similarly sized projection screen and we can have a computer with a full-sized screen and full sized keyboard that you can fit into your palm.

  • Not convinced (Score:4, Interesting)

    Looks like an innovative idea, but I like to have something tangible i can touch; i like to feel the key being depressed so that i know i typed it. i don't (can't) type perfectly, and i'm sure i sometimes press a key that would be obscured by the front of my hand.- pressing the space bar with my thumb, for example? i'm sure that would be out of view of the projector in front of me.
    Maybe a good idea if you need to do lots of typing on a PDA, but who actually does? the screen's are too small to format anything anyway. PDAs are good for short notes but not inputing loads of text.
    Thats my view anyway. not intended as a troll, i'm just not convinced.
  • F12 (Score:5, Funny)

    by bezza (590194) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:33AM (#5125778)
    I guess this is the end of my hilarious antics when I would run around and steal my co-workers F12 keys.

    How am I going to piss them off now?

  • Mapability? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by two_ply (610736) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:40AM (#5125795)
    When I first saw this (here on slashdot actually) after my initial "well that's pretty cool" reaction something immediately popped into my mind:

    If the technology senses finger location then the layout of the keyboard should be irrelevant, leaving the door open for the keyboard layout to be rearranged virtually. While this wouldn't be so practical for work (except for maybe switching keyboard nationality at the press of a button), how badass would that be for gaming?

    Load up UT 2005 and your keyboard layout changes to put a ton of extra keys around your direction arrows. Instead of trying to remember that Ctrl+P+2 balances your shields in Tie Fighter, you have a large "balance shields" key wherever you want it. RTS games always have somewhat unintuitive keyboard setups because they have so many keys... well imagine a soft/bouncy surface onto which a different specialized, user mappable, user configurable keyboard was projected for EACH app/game. I don't know if we'll see this right away... but I sure as hell want too.

    • Re:Mapability? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by droleary (47999) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:44AM (#5125925) Homepage

      While this wouldn't be so practical for work (except for maybe switching keyboard nationality at the press of a button), how badass would that be for gaming?

      Actually, it may be extremely practical for work, just not in the way everyone (or even the manufacturers, apparent) thinks. I see this sort of thing as being really useful as an extra, programmable keyboard. I mean, I could honestly do without the keypad most of the time, and surely I'm not the only one who remember when software relied heavily on function key template maps. You could virtualize those things and, in fact, could provide a number of custom layouts for macros or toolbar items as well. Just in typing this reply, I can see the use of being able to call up a special HTML keyboard that would easily allow me to tag a selection (an <i> key, a <p> key, etc.). Really, these people should forget about the stagnant PDA market and focus on providing a virtualized interface for the desktop market.

    • Dilbert (Score:4, Funny)

      Reminds me of an old Dilbert cartoon:

      Salesman: Try our FingerComputer 5000. It has a powerful AI, and implants under your fingernails so it can sense your typing. Of course, not everyone wants an intelligent computer knowing what they've been doing.

      Voice from his finger: Dave, about last night...
  • I don't think so (Score:3, Insightful)

    by john_is_war (310751) <john_is_war@nosPAm.yahoo.com> on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:43AM (#5125803)
    I don't think this is gonna fly. While yes, it's a great idea, it also has a good amount of cons to it. First of all is the aethetics of it. The thing about normal (qwerty) keyboards is that you can modify angle, etc. But these are at minimum height.
    Then there is the one which didn't even have a visualization. Then you'd have to worry about where the center of your keyboard is, etc.
    THen there is the sight factor, how would people react so see a person typing on a projection?
    Next is the fact that it HAS to have a surface, an advantage you don't need for fold-up keyboards or using the pen-on-screen approach.
    What I think they should do is make them similar to DDR pads. Seriously, You make them small, they'll have plenty of room for keys, you can fold them up so you have portability. Then you can have just a thin foldup sheet of some sort of stiff material for support so you can use it on your lap while being on a subway or something like that.
  • by kahei (466208) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:43AM (#5125805) Homepage
    I've used a rigid, zero-feedback keyboard (a TouchStream prototype) quite a lot.

    For typing tasks like programming and writing articles, it starts off mildly annoying and rapidly becomes agonizingly horrible. However, I was very impressed by the potential for non-typing input, e.g. gestures, dragging the mouse pointer without having to move your hand off the keyboard.

    I think these boards would be great for the pda/cellphone market but for heavy workstation use it's just terrible ergonomics -- specially when the perfect keyboard [kinesis-ergo.com] already exists! That's the Kinesis Contour for those trapped in the land of flat keyboards.
  • Touch Typing... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MosesJones (55544) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:50AM (#5125818) Homepage

    As someone who has learnt to touch type pretty successfully, which makes a huge difference to the way I work, I can't see these things being any use to me at all. You need to feel the gaps between the keys to indicate where they are. Sure for the "hunt and peck" mob out there this is a nice gadget to play with, but for a techy on the move who can actually type its not going to be useful.

    I'd prefer a tiny keyboard (I can touch type on a Nokia Communicator, its just about adjusting slightly) than one with no tactile feel.

    I understand why this will be great for somepeople, but for for speed typists this isn't very useful. Now a tactile glove might work a treat, well two of them obviously.
  • By the way. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by djupedal (584558) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @06:52AM (#5125821)
    All these comments about drumming, touching hard or soft surfaces, typing in shadows or accounting for tactile feedback...

    These projected, virtual keyboards have little to do with drumming, touching hard or soft surfaces, typing in shadows or accounting for tactile feedback...they have everything to do with motion, however.

    The concept is really that simple...don't get lost in trying to overlay traditional ideas about traditional keyboards onto what is a new concept that must be tried out in person before giving an otherwise off-base opinion.

    • Re:By the way. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by melonman (608440) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:23AM (#5125877) Journal

      These projected, virtual keyboards have little to do with drumming, touching hard or soft surfaces, typing in shadows or accounting for tactile feedback...they have everything to do with motion, however.

      But you still have conservation of momentum. If you start your finger moving to trip the sensor, I can only see three options as to what happens next:

      1. Your finger stops because it hits a hard surface, which is likely to get painful after a while
      2. Your finger stops because you use muscular control to stop it, which is going to place different strains on your hands (don't ask me whether it's better or worse than a standard keyboard)
      3. Your finger chops straight through the table, which gets you a part in a Kung Fu movie

      Excluding the third option, the other two sound like they are going to be a pain, literally. But surely the point is that these keyboards are designed for occasional use, not for 8 hour a day typing? I can't imagine that typing up War and Peace on most PDAs would be that great either, but then that's not what most people use them for.

  • by eforhan (631605) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:13AM (#5125856)
    If you set this on a mirror, will all your words come out backwards?
  • by thogard (43403) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:25AM (#5125881) Homepage
    This is just another solution looking a problem. Keyboard typing is about pressing buttons. Its been that way since the 1st typewriter. This is about simulating that since people know it but the finger suffer too much shock hitting a non spring loaded surface. It becomes a major issue to use this often.

    Years ago when I had toys to play with that would do most of this, it became painful typeing on a bit of paper and detecting where the finger where. It just didn't work but looked like a good idea on paper and the sparc 1 could cope with the image processing needed. The major problem was people tend to drift if they don't have the physical feedback so you know where the key "centers" are. Modern keyboards suck with that compared with old 3270 keyboards which had an indent on J & F while the new ones tend to use some sort of raised edge. A projected keyboard won't have either.

    A cheap $10 rubber keyboard will roll up and go anywhere and it doens't abuse the finger tips so I don't see these expensive things going anywhere people have a real need to type. The projection things are ok for "yes/no" and "Enter your Name" but not useful for much of anything else.
  • by LedZeplin (41206) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:28AM (#5125887)
    To:info@virtualdevices.net
    From: Me
    Subject: Vaporware

    What's the deal, so you have something or not? Pictures of it actually projecting a keyboard would be nice. Somebody should tell your artist you can't see the cone of the laser [virtualdevices.net] in the air.

    Forget that and sell your gravity defying PDA's and Cell phones [virtualdevices.net] that you have pictured at the bottom of the pdf.

  • by Chocolate Teapot (639869) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:37AM (#5125909) Journal
    I hope he's typing on his lap dear. Oh look, there's a policeman!
  • by Peter Clary (34038) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:44AM (#5125921)
    In TRON, Ed Dillinger (David Warner) had a large, black glass desk in his office. The keyboard was a glowing projection on the desk surface from inside the desk. It was very cool, but I had exactly the same thoughts about tactile feedback that many people are expressing here.

    Peter.
  • by KillerLoop (202131) on Tuesday January 21 2003, @07:54AM (#5125965) Homepage
    While this may be a arguably nice toy for people who have to search for every key, it seems to be quite a drawback for those who can type "properly".

    I need the minuscle feedback when moving over the keys to have body memory kick so I can find the keys instinctively. When I type, I don't have to think where the key is, all done autonomously.

    Try it with a piece of paper with a printed keyboard on it. Not a chance to type blindly (which I do all of the time), and you won't get up to any decent speed even with looking at the keys.

    But thats exactly what I'd require from a "next generation" keyboard for PDAs and the like, if I want to enter text at a slow pace there are already a lot of viable alternatives.
  • Bah... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bahwi (43111) <incoming@jose[ ]uhlin.com ['phg' in gap]> on Tuesday January 21 2003, @08:14AM (#5126028) Homepage
    Give me a TouchStream [fingerworks.com] anyday. =) I don't want stupid red light, black with print is the way to go. Same effect, but no red light. I can see where these projection keyboards would be useful though, but I can see where they wouldn't be (work, school, home). Of course, on an airplane, travelling, etc, it'd be great. Just imagine a screen, and that's your laptop. Oops [slashdot.org].

    Still, it's good technology, even if not applied in the best sense here. Imagine your house is X10
    controlled(sans the pop-ups, of course). You pull out one of these things with custom buttons you did on your PC. Hit the lights that you want on/off and the wireless transmitter sends it back to the server to do it. Or you could have these 'magic' buttons built into a painting or art(-wannabe) object, and access them anytime anywhere, but keep them out of place. (Yes, this example took the technology and not the specific use of the projection keyboards).